GaryD

Demo iAVs System

88 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, John46 said:

Thanks for the update Gary, much appreciated.

I can see that a mini system could be finicky.

Do you think a small IAVS system may need constant aeration for the fish, considering the irregular nature of the water pumping ?

Maybe the water got too hot causing a drop in dissolved oxygen.

I imagine a small plastic tank would be prone to overheating, especially if the sun hit it.

I imagine that only certain fish would survive in an IAVs system with intermittent airation. Maybe an airstone / pump would would be prudent.

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32 minutes ago, Strider said:

I imagine that only certain fish would survive in an IAVs system with intermittent airation. Maybe an airstone / pump would would be prudent.

Of course using a black container sitting in full sun, doesn't seem like the best setup. Sometimes I wonder why they preach putting the FT in the shade, under a cover, and then they do the opposite for their setups. Strange!!!!!

Edited by Old Prospector (see edit history)

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Hi Gary,

I find it interesting how you are talking about planting seeds and propagating them.in your demo system.

I've been thinking about doing the same when mine gets built, running the system until winter, cycling it and  getting my fish then, so in theory the system would be cycled, have the fish and winter seedlings ready to go all at the same time.

Finding the correct species of fish, which I like, in season, now, which are suited to my climate, is another challenge I face, so I think why not give propogation a try while I'm waiting for the correct time of year for my fish? Your posts are encouraging me and confirming, I think :) ...I'm on the right track.

I look forward to your updates and watching your propagating progress.

Cheers.

Edited by bigdaddy (see edit history)

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20 hours ago, Strider said:

I imagine that only certain fish would survive in an IAVs system with intermittent airation. Maybe an airstone / pump would would be prudent.

I was thinking of trying mini carp AKA Goldfish - apparently they tolerate wide and fluctuating conditions.

I was also thinking of some native minnows or Gambusia from my local stream for free.

Edited by John46 (see edit history)

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2 hours ago, bigdaddy said:

running the system until winter, cycling it and  getting my fish then

I agree I think cycling for a good while is essential before getting the fish.

I plan to concentrate on keeping the fish healthy, and the plants are secondary at this stage.

Just treating it like a pond or aquarium with external sand filter.

I also plan to have the fish tank well insulated or in ground to control temperature fluctation.

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Something to keep in mind:  in Mark's  description of iAVs sand beds it was said that plantless running/cycling for an extended period resulted in water with a low ph and high ammonia levels, which I would assume are not the ideal environment for fish.  Plants and the accompanying bacteria are necessary for balance.

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38 minutes ago, Aufin said:

Something to keep in mind:  in Mark's  description of iAVs sand beds it was said that plantless running/cycling for an extended period resulted in water with a low ph and high ammonia levels, which I would assume are not the ideal environment for fish.  Plants and the accompanying bacteria are necessary for balance.

Thanks for the advice.

I was hoping that the sand would be sufficiently colonized by beneficial bacteria even without plants.

I guess you might need a larger sand filter and/or more constant flow for sufficient filtration.with no plants.

I feel regular 10% water changes could be necessary for small systems too,

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Hi folks,

My understanding is, lower pH is a "byproduct" of the nitrification process so if the same is true in an iAVs system and you plan on running a cycled system for any length of time, you may need to adjust the pH from time to time.

The other thing is, the plants are used to help remove the nitrates from the system, so to avoid a build of ammonia, one should plant ASAP. I've found in my systems water changes are kept low and not as high as an aquarium set up, although a small amount of regular exchange is good

I'm happy enough at this stage, to run my iVAs with the vegetables being the prime crop and the fish only being a means to an end as Mark and Gary suggest.

Actually I was only planning on cycling the tank just in time to add the fish, maybe a month or less before the purchase of the fish and I was only planning on growing my seeds in the first 2 or 3  months of next year, so everything is timed to be ready to go when the fingerlings are purchased...But this thread is about Gary's Demo system, not my system, I was just trying to draw a comparison of what I was thinking to what Gary says he plans to do.

Cheers.

Edited by bigdaddy (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, Aufin said:

Something to keep in mind:  in Mark's  description of iAVs sand beds it was said that plantless running/cycling for an extended period resulted in water with a low ph and high ammonia levels, which I would assume are not the ideal environment for fish.  Plants and the accompanying bacteria are necessary for balance.

Aufin

You have the best answer yet for cycling. I, can see that this topic is going the same way as Procuring the Sand. Trouble is that too many members are reading something in between the lines that isn't there.

But sometimes I think that its a "Cop-out" so to not even try in the first place.

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On ‎12‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 0:06 AM, Strider said:

Any reason perlite cannot be added to tbe first 8"?

Strider

But then again you'll get the argument that adding anything to the sand other than fish poop, is a NO-NO for iAVs. We like to use Coir added to the sand at 10% by volume, it helps to hold the sand to the roots.

But when Gary stated "I'd like to know a lot more about how seed germination works in a sand bed." Its the same as any other media, the seeds DNA tells it to shoot the growing tip north and the root tip south no matter if you put the seed in the media up-side down. 

Edited by Old Prospector (see edit history)

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4 hours ago, Old Prospector said:

Aufin

You have the best answer yet for cycling. I, can see that this topic is going the same way as Procuring the Sand. Trouble is that too many members are reading something in between the lines that isn't there.

But sometimes I think that its a "Cop-out" so to not even try in the first place.

Not too sure what's going on   Maybe people try to shortcut things, don't read, or absorb things, whatever.  Maybe people think they're building a better mousetrap, reinventing the wheel.  Doesn't matter.  I'm probably guilty of coloring outside the lines, too a lot.  Sometimes I try to add a little to a conversation, but mostly just lurk.  This conversation does need to be moved to a more appropriate thread.  Sorry 'bout the hijack, Gary.

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Sand culture for seedlings

DIRECTIONS FOR PRACTICAL USE OF THE METHOD

1. Secure the desired amount of sand (as free from silt and loam as possible) from a sand pit, lake, river, seashore, or dealer in masons' supplies.

2. Wash the sand in several changes of hot water (160° F or above) until the water remains practically clean after stirring.

3. Place the sand in clean wooden boxes or flats, or any sort of a container that will allow a little drainage. Level off the surface to about 2 inches or more in depth.

4. For each square foot of sand surface, dissolve about one-half teaspoonful of saltpeter (potassium nitrate) in about one-quarter pint of water and sprinkle over the sand. For a flat of ordinary size, this amounts to about 1 teaspoonful of saltpeter dissolved in a cup of water. For larger surfaces add 1 ounce of saltpeter in 3 pints of water for each 10 square feet.

5. Drill or sow seeds and cover with the same washed sand.

6. Keep surface of sand moist by occasional watering until the seedlings are grown.

7. Avoid contamination of the sand by using clean water in watering. Do not add soil to the culture under any conditions. If seeds need more covering after they have sprouted, use only clean, washed sand for this purpose.

SUMMARY
1. Sand culture of seedlings has been found an efficient method of preventing damping-off.
2. An equal number of seeds produced a larger number of seedlings by this method than by culture in plain soil.
3. The sand culture has given results equal to or better than those obtained with the most satisfactory soil treatments. Consistently there has been less damping-off of the seedlings by the sand method than by any of the soil methods used.
4. Germination, emergence, growth, and vigor were equal for seedlings grown in sand and in soil.
5. Sand-grown seedlings were found to have a more favorable size and root development for transplanting and frequently to withstand transplanting better than those grown in soil.
6. It has been found that sand from a variety of sources may be used for the growing of seedlings. Colored sand proved more satisfactory than pure quartz sand.
7. Small amounts of various elements are present in sand. Therefore it was necessary to add only potassium nitrate for satisfactory seedling production of the species included.
8. The addition of phosphorus to the sand has been found to be beneficial and to provide for better seedling growth.
9. Other types of nutrient solutions have been used successfully.
10. The concentration of the fertilizer salts has been found relatively unimportant within certain wide limits.
11. The use of ammonium salts as sources of nitrogen has been found to prevent certain seedlings from developing stems that are too long for transplanting.
12. It has been found possible to add sufficient nutrient to the sand at the time of planting to provide for growth of the plants throughout the seedling stage.
13. Size and duration of growth of the seedlings have been found to depend upon the amount of nutrient added to the sand.
14. Certain seedlings have been kept for long periods of time in sand culture without becoming too large for transplanting.
15. The sand may be used many times if it is washed with hot water before each planting.
16. The growing of seedlings in sand is a simple and efficient method that requires the minimum of care and expense. 
 
Gary, I hope this helps.  Copy/paste from my old note.  I don't recollect the source.
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