ande

It's the beekeepers dream.

30 posts in this topic

Hi

 

This is an amazing improvement in bee keeping if the system is as reliable as shown. I hope these innovators are rewarded for their efforts  and their ideas are not stolen from them.

 

Cheers Joey

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They set up a crowdfunder.. asking for $70,000USD... and achieved their target in 10 minutes!!!

 

Currently they're funded to over $2.5 million... with still 40 days to go...

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They set up a crowdfunder.. asking for $70,000USD... and achieved their target in 10 minutes!!!

 

Currently they're funded to over $2.5 million... with still 40 days to go...

Uhhhh.... Wow. That's crazy.

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Hi Joey

Hi

 

This is an amazing improvement in bee keeping if the system is as reliable as shown. I hope these innovators are rewarded for their efforts  and their ideas are not stolen from them.

 

Cheers Joey

 

Yeah amazing indeed, to me the new harwest management regime, means I can reconsider keeping bee's I'm alergic to bees, had to drop it :thumbsu:

 

Yeah I think they get rewarded & recogniced,a cool father/son, inovative enterprise :bow:

Update (Feb. 25, 2015): It's been confirmed that the Flow Hive has broken the record for the most funds raised in the first 24 hours on Indiegogo, at $2.18 million. The campaign goal of $70,000 was reached in just 477 seconds (or 7 mins 57 secs).

 

cheers

edit to ad video

 

Edited by ande (see edit history)

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Hi folks,

 

The inventors are neighbors of a good friend of mine. They did manage to keep it under wraps for a very long time and this does seem like a great invention indeed. It has also raised some very in depth discussions on several local forums / fronts where I saw & read about it several weeks ago.

 

One of the largest concerns has a 2 fold of (relatively) unknown potentials... and its all about the honeycomb.

 

1) Simply because it is plastic.

Bee colonies are known to be a very solid dynamic & highly interactive society. They are also known to be a potential disaster in the waiting when exposed to 'unnatural' demands upon them.

Grr, I cant find the link at the moment, but one experiment some time ago in the US involved the use of a new style plastic frame. The result was a large reduction in productivity, both honey & larvae production was affected.

 

Q: Will the plastic honeycomb have short / long term effects physiologically on the colony ?

 

2) Bees have evolved to produce wax for honeycomb production.

This hive style obviously has no / very low need for wax production. How this will effect the individual bee, much less the entire colony structure is unknown.

 

Q: How will the bees alter & / or cope with such an instant change to the need, or more to the point, the lack of need to produce wax ?

 

Im just a newBee to the beehive society, so am still taking it all in. Everyday is a learning day.

 

None the less, the facts remain.... when a species of animal is faced with instant change to part of their evolutionary function.. they generally do not fare well over the long term.

 

Interesting to see what other apiarists thoughts are.

 

 

Cheers

Joe

ande likes this

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This is one of the coolest things I have seen in a while, but Toga raises some interesting points. Nonetheless, thanks for sharing ande.

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i was reading a beekeepers forum about this.. (interesting how different/new ideas are treated on just about every forum i've read)

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?307501-Extractor-less-honey-by-quot-Honey-Flow-quot&highlight=flow+hive

seems a pretty respected member has been testing them for about a year..

ande likes this

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Thanks for the link keith

a better insight on how it works in this video

 

I wan't one as soon as it's available here :cool:

 

cheers

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In a traditional langstroth hive with the queen excluder mesh and boxes added on top, I can see it being a permanent thing. With the potential pitfalls that Joe has explained.

Although It still seems like a step forward from replacing spun honeycomb into a hive.

 

In a warre style hive 80% of the time boxes are added to the bottom and the queen has the run of the whole hive. So old cells at the top are turned into honey storage as she colonizes the freshest cleanest comb further down. When the honey flow is at its highest and there is a good population of bees, they fill the available space around and above the brood and run out of room and basically sit around getting fidgety waiting for the nectar to dehydrate so they can repack it and get some more space. This is the only time a top box or "super" would be added to a warre hive and they would fill it in a couple of weeks with just honey.

I guess in a good season with this system in a warre, a top box could be drained two or three times over a 2 month period then removed, cleaned and stored until the next good season. That would limit the bees exposure to old honeycomb and plastics to a minimum.

crsublette likes this

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That Beesource topic is a great read. there is some good info on the deep cells, but wow!!! it is pretty clear that 40% of the members there have never had to think for themselves or adapt.

Man, I thought us farmers were slow but we have got nothing on some of these guys. I have eaten more intelligent vegetables!

 

I find that strange, all the beekeepers that I know are really switched on people with a good eye for detail.

ande and crsublette like this

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I like the concept a lot, not sure if this is the best way to accomplish the goals, but it's a great first step.  The part I don't like is the price, $50 a frame is ridiculous.  I understand that this is a first run and all, but at those prices, the Chinese will be producing this for $1/frame by this time next year.

 

It will be interesting to see the longer-term use and effects of all plastic comb.  Plastic foundation has been used for a long time, but it's not as deep, so allows the bees to build some wax/comb.  I think you could do this with a lot less plastic, actually, and basically make a plastic foundation that splits in the middle to allow the honey to run out.

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Hi guys-n-gals,

 

WOW, hasnt this hive invention gained an astonishing amount of interest, financial capitol, pre orders, reviews and just as much critical attention... in what is possibly the world record smashing, crowd funded offer ever. $3.4mUSD and rising.

 

Thanks for that link, keith_r. I havnt visited that site before.

That thread is now into its 24th page, in 12 days.

 

It is an extremely hot topic world wide. Post's and threads about the flow hive continue to pop up at amazingly high rates, existing one's are hitting post count records.

It appears some University's and other scientists are now weighing in ... and for very compelling reasons.

The planet can not live without bees. CCD, (bee) Colony Collapse Disorder has the potential to push bees to extinction, in a very short time frame.

 

Many of you may or may not know that The Channon, where the inventors live, is an integral part of the "Rainbow Region" ... Australia's founding & premiere, alternative lifestyle community hub.

 

Here is a recent post from the Nimbin Natural Beekeepers face book page - https://www.facebook.com/groups/327832207427674/348607902016771/?notif_t=group_activity

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is a response to the new "honey flow hives" from Julie Armstrong from the group ACT - in Canberra

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ACT-for-Bees/237642546427029

 

Dear James

ACT for Bees is very concerned about this hive and the effect on the bees. They are in such a precarious situation world wide and such a vital part of the ecology of the whole web of life. A report 2 weeks ago by Dr Andrew Barron at Macquarie Uni has found the possible cause of Colony Collapse Disorder being poor food quality, pests and pesticides causing the collapse of the 'society as a whole'. Chronic stress has caused the bees to send out young workers which normally would be inside the hive. They didn't have the strength to gather food and premature deaths resulted in a vicious cycle which affected the next generations of foragers.This led to the collapse of the entire colony.

What will this new hive do for the bees? It puts further stresses on the hive by putting plastic comb that exudes chemicals right into the hive. Along with the pesticides and herbicides that the bees pick up when they are foraging, it adds to the stresses within the hive.

I see it as a bank manager who puts a 'tap' onto your personal bank account and can access the funds when ever he wants to. The 'money (honey) is on tap and can be cleaned out completely. While the 'owner' is busy working away collecting and 'saving' for the future of his family (the future of the hive) the bank manager is happily 'tapping' your account to his own greed.

What are we doing???? We can't continue like this.....

 

The response of 'The Natural Beekeeping Trust' to the flow Hive is:

The ‘Flow Hive’

Even some beekeepers of holistic repute either endorse the Flow Hive or sit on the fence, completely failing to see that it is not simply the invention per se that is to be deplored, it is the mindset of casual exploitation that is behind it. We are told that we can surreptitiously steal the precious winter food of the Bee without even bothering to interact with that wonderful creature. This is unthinking consumerism at its worst.

It is very surprising to see that an idea like the so called “the flow hive†gets so much attention and financial backing, when it represents a paradigm of beekeeping which undercuts the natural flow of native tissue (comb), continues the thinking ofâ€auto mechanics of beekeeping†and continues to alienate people from this mammalian, sentient being and animal. A true flow hive would flow with the gestalt and instinctual preference of Apis Mellifera, but instead it reduces this most sacred being into a honey tap machine. What an unfortunate misunderstanding of what Honeybees are!

Michael Thiele

So strongly do we feel about the response that the concept of the so-called Flow Hive has received on social media and beekeeping blogs, that below is an updated version of our original post on the subject. Unlike other posts on this blog, this one is a joint statement by all the trustees.

What are we doing???? We can't continue like this.....

Please think carefully about this hive carefully. Be Bee Aware.

BEST WISHES for THE BEES

Julie

---------------------------------------------

 

As I said earlier... I am a total newBee, to bees.

I feel that I have read & learned enough to jump into beekeeping, with a fairly high confidence. I am just about to begin construction of my first hives, 3x Top Bar Hives.

So, the topic of bees has been high on my information radar.

 

I believe I read last night that the complete flow hive unit, as per the video, will retail for $600 AUD / $760USD, plus international shipping.

 

IMO, The flow hive has very quickly fallen into the basket of "to good to bee true" & more often than not that basket, to me, rings alarm bells and screams... STOP !

This compels me to look & research very deep into, What Is Not Said ! What do truly informed people have to say about the subject matter ?

 

Could such a simple & cleaver device, be a potential Pandora's Box ?

 

Cheers

Joe

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Hi Joe,

No, its not a Pandora's box, its just a different management tool, there are benefits and disadvantages to every choice that we make.

 

 

Commercial style hives are designed to be transported and to easily harvest the maximum amount of honey in a season as well as being used as a pollinator for commercial crops. Perhaps the plastic issue with the flow-comb will be more than offset by not opening the hive 6-7 times in 12 weeks.

 

Top bar and warre hives are more about trying to replicate nature, heavier insulation, a more compact hive space, less honey taken, roof spaces to control moisture, bees make fresh wax for every new comb, less control of colony structure, less opening of the hive.

you will find that what the bees harvest will have a large bearing on the hive population. slow growing plants in a healthy varied landscape have a lot of stored nutrients, bees on this diet live longer and have more healthy babies. Where the land is a monoculture or fast growing plants nutrition is lower, they will struggle to maintain the bee population even though they may be producing lots of honey.

 

The big issue for the future of bees is building resistance to viruses, diseases, mites etc. The only way this will happen is through natural selection and evolution, sure, a lot of bee colonies will die along the way. If the the population of bees is large and varied enough and the organic/small scale beekeepers keep recolonizing with the survivors there could be a healthy resistant population of breeders in 7 generations of queens. On the other hand If the backyard beekeepers are persuaded to stop keeping bees because of abuse and vitriol from others and over-regulation from the industry bodies, then the bee population will collapse. there is not enough genetic variation in the commercial bee population and the wild bees will only interbreed with the colonies in their close surrounding area. A rapid collapse in the bee population leads to a collapse of the plants that they pollinate, it would be a long slow road back for regions that dont have good numbers of native bees and wasps to step in and take the bees place.

edmolina, ande, Toga and 1 other like this

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Short answer? Yes it is a pandora's box IMO. But Pandora's box had something other than nightmares in it as well...

 

It makes non informed individuals see bees in a certain light - as a farm animal that can be kept with little to no regard for its well being.

 

It removes key facets of how bees function from being able to be performed as nature intended.

 

quick question - would you like it if I said:  "You can now only sweat three times a day - doing otherwise is unnessesary and you have no reason to do it, I am the warden and I expect your biology to work the way I want it to."

 

Most would look at anyone saying that and state - "but I can't help it, thats not how my body works"

 

Now in some systems I'm sure it wont be as bad as some see it being, but most consumers who are viewing this product will not even be thinking about how bees function.

They will just be thinking on how they will no longer have to pay for honey once they get this baby running - like a machine. Not really thinking on how the hive will still need care for numerous reasons.

 

In the long run I can see some good coming of this - one is better awareness of bees and I can see this idea being used in certain hive setups in a similiar manner to prevent some stress to the bees, Its just damaged comb to them after its been drained. Not entirely missing comb needing to be replaced because it has been removed by the big bad predator....DEFEND THE HIVE!...... anyway...

 

There are pros and cons to the idea. Good or Bad - at least its got people talking bees - which we have needed for a LONG time now.

Edited by HarleyS (see edit history)
Toga likes this

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Cool concept no doubt, Aussies have a knack for being an inventive lot.

I am aware of the situation for bee's in regards to the Varoa mite so if more ppl had their own hives it would have to help?

That aside, alot of the negative Nancy's seem to be focusing on us being 'consumer's' with no regard for the bees but I disagree. I have been looking into starting a Hive but not to get honey, don't get me wrong I like Honey but I want a Hive to ensure pollination across my garden, if I never got any Honey I wouldn't care so long as my plants were thriving.

With all things it does pay to have a critical eye but morally I don't have any more of a problem with it to raising fish to eat....

Anyways that's my 2 cents for what it's worth.... Not much! Lol

crsublette likes this

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Hi Yahoo2,

 

Unfortunately I was called out for the day and missed the show.

I dont suppose you recorded it by chance ??

 

Cheers

Joe

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No, I didn't record it, it focused more on the crowd funding rather than just on the pros and cons of the product. The really interesting story was just before it, about Manuka and Jellybush honey (what I call tea-tree honey, quite a bitter aftertaste). That is honey is made from a couple of leptospermum tree varieties, I think you are probably in the right area for the polygalifolium (jellybush, tantoon, mountain tea tree) The beekeepers here use the coastal tea tree to extend the life of the worker bees and build the colony before winter but it is not recognized as having the same medicinal properties as the NZ Manuka honey.

 

You could still watch it at ABC iView if you have 283 MB to spare, I only have a mobile internet available here, smoking fast but only 7 GB download limit then my service is "slowed", that is Telstra codeword for completely crippled, websites time-out and emails abort :growl:

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grr can't be watched in my country :growl:

so it dosent help me that I got big enoughf lines

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Incredibly interesting read.

 

Yeah, I am getting the impression all of the grief toward this product is entirely unsubstantiated and driven primarily by dogma involving "modern world" leaving residues into and colliding with the "old world" and so the "old world" is in revolt.

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Thanks for the link keith

a better insight on how it works in this video

 

I wan't one as soon as it's available here :cool:

 

cheers

 

 

Quite amazing.

 

 

Got a few beekeeping fellas that are Sun Flower seed and plant oil farmers in my area.... Going to share this with them...

Edited by crsublette (see edit history)

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Greetings from Borneo.

I've been away from the forum for a while. Just too busy with backyard projects as well as that four letter word, WORK.

This post caught my attention as I have followed the story of the Flow hive with interest and I hope to visit the inventor in December when I visit Byron Bay, or at least get to see one working and get an idea on price or whether I could make one DIY.

 

I have an acre of fruit trees on Macleay Island, Qld. and will be busy in my retirement getting a permaculture setup that will provide me and my wife with fresh organic fruit, veggies and eggs. There are already a few beekeepers in the neighbourhood and usually plenty of bees in the fruit trees, but I would love to have fresh honey "on tap".

 

Dave

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I've been beekeeping for around 15 years now, and this system does not work. If you look on YouTube for reviews of the system there are several videos explaining all the problems with it. These are problems for the beekeeper, by the way, not just the bees. Any possible benefits are far outweighed by those problems, and above all by the cost, which is astronomical. On the other hand, kudos to the inventors for becoming millionaires virtually overnight.

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