GaryD

US Government Shutdown

100 posts in this topic

A couple of things Cody...

 

For the peanut Gallery Ha,ha,ha,ha.....Don't worry The peanut gallery won't get their panty's in a wad....I don't think they are wearing any.....

 

I asked you to introduce yourself....Before going off at people...It's common courtesy...Please do that...Many forums will not allow you to post such things until you have introduced yourself and told people about yourself and what you plan to do...The forums are no different to normal face to face conversations that way...

 

I haven't seen your first post taken down and nor have I seen calls to ban you...But...If you keep playing the player and not the post you are likely to be warned or banned depending on the mods decision....

 

Snipes like Have a nice life and stay down under...we have enough people like you in America already is in fact a very personal snipe and it does not tackle the post....It tackles the person...

 

OK...As for your comments about what Gary's comments are designed to do...Hmmm...maybe....But I don't think so....I think he is in fact asking Americans what really is going on over there....

 

I have a question on that...

 

Is the shutdown purely political either from President Obama not compromising and /or the Republicans wanting to cause havoc by not budging themselves...

 

As for Gary's other comments I don't know if I agree with them but hey If you don't agree with what is said, surely you can politely correct people rather than sniping at them...

 

If you can't make it to Australia to live if you haven't already,..maybe have a vacation over here...I think you'll love it...

 

I'll be over in America again one day for a holiday...I love it and the American people...

 

Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Codi,

 

OK, just for the peanut gallery, this will be my final post so you don't have to do like Obama when someone calls his hand on something and get your panties in a wad.

 

If you'd taken the time to look at our Lounge Room index, you'd see that we discuss many topical issues here.....and we usually avoid the name-calling.  In fact, we insist on it.

 

First off GaryD you started a thread about happenings in America that would draw in your American members because I can't believe that Aussies in general really care about what goes on here.  So you targeted the Americans on your forum in particular.

 

I posed the question because we have so many US members on this forum......and, as I inferred earlier, when the US sneezes, the rest of the world catches cold - in an economic context.

 

You see, here's the problem Gary...you don't really know what the problem is that's causing so much uproar here in America so you pick a side to exploit, "OBAMACARE"  Then you basically insinuate that America is not a civilized because we didn't have or even want a universal health care system in our country where the government dictates who gets treatment for what and when if at all.

 

What I actually did was pose a couple of questions.......and who are these people who don't want a different healthcare approach?  A majority of Americans elected a government whose platform included a healthcare system.  Isn't that the way that government works?  Look, I'm no great fan of politicians of any persuasion but, as much as I detest them as a breed, I'd prefer that the government run the health system than any insurance company.  We can, at least, get rid of a government.

 

Our health system is far from perfect but it does allow pensioners and the disadvantaged to receive treatment when they are ill.

 

I don't know what Canada has......but the ones who are going to the US for healthcare are those who can afford to pay up big time.

 

Here in America there is another class of people..the middle class.  I guess you could call them the middle haves a little.  They make up the working class of people in this country and they pay their taxes and strive toward that wonderland where the haves live and also do their best to not wind up where the have nots live.

 

I'm not sure how it works in the US but, in Australia, people pay taxes so that they will be looked after if they get sick or they are unable to find work......or they are too old to work.

 

Over the preceding years, with a tremendous amount of long hours and hard work, I became one of the haves to a mild degree.  I never was a Donald Trump and never desired to be but I did very well.  I retired in 1995 and thought I was set with my investment in place then Obama got into office.  My investment has deteriorated to virtually nothing.  So much so that I have had to go back to work.  My wife is not able to work and our only child at age 25 has had to move back in with us to survive.  I am once again a have not but I have never taken a dime of unemployment, welfare, food stamps or any kind of government assistance and I don't intend to because those who are the haves worked to get where they are and they don't owe me a thing.

 

I'm sorry that you have fallen on hard times.  In Australia, it's people like you and your family that the system seeks to protect......and most of those of us who are in better shape accept that.

 

Are those the have nots the ones the haves should be concerned with, the dead beats?

 

No.....it's designed to look after people like you....and your family.   Fate can push anyone over the edge (financially and mentally) - but the social welfare situation is designed to provide a safety net.  It exists to ensure that you have food on the table, a roof over your head and medical treatment when you need it.

 

Look, no system is perfect......and we have "dead beats" in Australia, too.  But rejecting sensible social welfare initiatives, because some people will abuse it, makes no sense and denies those in genuine need.

 

So tell me, has Aussie land had its first Aborigine President yet? 

 

No, but we beat you to the punch with a woman......Ms Julia Gillard.  One thing we have in common is our deplorable treatment of our respective indigenous peoples.  Australia's record, in this respect, continues to embarrass us internationally. 

 

America's credit rating was lowered under his presidency for the first time in history and our debt is piling up.....

 

And you don't suppose that might have anything to do with the military spending in which his predecessors might have engaged.

 

.....continued in the next post.....

 

 

Edited by GaryD (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...../.....

 

 

I don't have a problem with the fact that he's black.  I have problem with the fact that 1) he's a Muslim... 2) he's a socialist ...3) he is hell bent on destroying my country from the inside just as the Muslims said they would.

 

He's not a Muslim......nor a socialist?  He's a Democrat and a christian (not that I care either way)......and, in my estimation, internal intolerance is as much a threat to the future of the US as any external aggressor.  

 

Again with the same ole thing.  America has fought against spread of communism and other agressors around the world with very little thanks from those who they saved.  Would you feel more safe if America were to collaspe and China, North Korea or Russia became the defenders of the faith?

 

Where exactly did the US prevent the spread of communism?  Regrettably, the Hawks in your governments got you (and us) into some conflicts that don't reflect well on either of our nations.  Examples include Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.....and leaving the "faith" to China, Russia or North Korea is not the only option.

 

As for Australia, I always wanted to live there and I was all set to move there when I got out of the Navy but family illness kept me in America and after my Grandparents died, I couldn't get myself to leave America.  Currently the only problem I have with Aussies is you..

 

You'd have more to worry about here than just me.  We have a healthcare system, old age pensions, unemployment benefits (without a time limit) and all manner of other "socialist" ideas.  :wink:

 

My Grandmother use to have a sayng..."CLEAN AROUND YOUR OWN BACK DOOR BEFORE YOU START TELLING SOMEONE ELSE HOW TO CLEAN AROUND THEIRS"..!  I'm sure your country has enough problems of its own (and NO I don't keep up with them) to keep you occupied without trying to clean around the back door of America.

 

As I've already acknowledged, Australia does have its own problems.....and they are also canvassed from time to time.  This is a discussion forum, Codi.....that's what we do here.   Had you taken the time to take a closer look, you'd be aware that we discuss all sorts of things.

 

Notwithstanding your first post, you were welcomed to Aquaponics Nation.  As Big Daddy suggested, it's usual to introduce yourself and to make a post or two before you attempt (unsuccessfully it seems) to take a bat to existing members......and it's not too late.   If the discussion of topical affairs is not to your particular taste, take the opportunity to learn (and contribute) to the aquaponics threads.  If you've come from another aquaponics forum, you'll almost certainly learn something.

 

I'm surprised you havent's started a thread about TRAVON MARTIN and tried to paint Americans as racist on that front because George Zimmerman was found innocent.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about....but you're able to start a thread and discuss the matter if you choose - that's what we do here, Codi......we discuss things.

 

As for the calls to ban me, it is of no consequence to me as I will not post on you forum again.  

 

I haven't called for you to be banned......and no-one else has that I'm aware of.  You are perfectly welcome to participate on this forum.  We don't get rid of people because they have an alternative view on anything......just when they feel the need to resort to personal attacks.

 

Take it easy, mate!

 

Regards......Gary

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Codi,

You do realize without Gary this site wouldn't be here in the first place right? Additionally his book and his patience with me has truly been an inspiration.

As far as him minding his own business, the world's economy's truly are interconnected, and I see no problem with his questions, as it is entirely possible that if our economy tanks -- if the debt ceiling is not raised --Australia's economy could be adversely effected.

And believing Obama is a Muslim, Marxist etc. you really should know better as that was debunked years ago. I suspect your news source is Fox? Or Rush Limbaugh? If so that would explain the bad information you got.

Edited by Cecil (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

You do realize without Gary this site wouldn't be here in the first place right?

 

Cecil, thank you for your kind words......but I'd prefer that people don't defer to me.  Anything you may have got from me, I got from someone else - I'm simply paying it forward.   You, and others like you, are what makes APN the forum that it is.  Our ability to leverage off each other makes us more than the sum total of our parts.

 

I believe that all people who belong to APN are equals.....and that people should be able to express a point of view about almost anything......so long as they manage the rancour effectively.

 

My status on the forum (now that of a mere member for all practical purposes :wink: ) entitles me to nothing more than a point of view......and the respect that accrues to any other member.  

 

Gary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good points Gary but i still think you deserve more respect than Codi gave you, but then again his tone would have been disrespectful of anyone on here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Cecil,

 

I don't know why it turns into fighting.  Maybe it is less about problem solving now and more about my team vs your team, my religion vs yours.  It has everything to do with people thinking they are righteous I think.  This doesn't solve problems.  Engineering is about problem solving.  We need to think like engineers.

It's a tactic. Blame Ed Bernays and his descendants. Here is how it works... (thank Edward de Bono for the bits you agree with and blame me for where you don't... :D)

 

Imagine a baby mind - it's like a rolling pasture, or maybe a dune desert. Data comes in like rain, making indentations. A lot of data in one area will erode a gully, then a valley. Considerations (in psych terms, a preconceived bias or idea) will form a blockage, diverting the data-rain and forming rivers etc. After a while the mind looks like EEG_3D_spectrum.jpgEEG_3D_spectrum.jpg

 

This is actually a picture of something else but it gives a good representation. 

 

Now, in a normal mind, we have lots of different filters, mostly established in our early years when the mind is forming the hills and valleys, They can also be called labels or in Edward de Bono's terms, funnels. They are artefacts of the 2-valued 'Aristotelian' universe we have been programmed into. ('if you're not with us, you're against us..., Christians/Atheists, Democrats/Republicans, Americans/Everyone else etc.) and they are false-to-facts. 

 

Worse, the funnels grow as time passes. We start with including all (say) Democrats in our group because we identify with Democrat policies. Anyone who differs in view must clearly be a Republican. But that Democrat over there thinks this particular policy is wrong, so he clearly doesn't belong with real Democrats. The problem is, either someone fits in a funnel or they don't; there are no half-funnels.

 

And those funnels/labels exaggerate differences. Imagine a beach, nice smooth sand, and a rain shower passes over. After it is gone the rain has made barely any impression in the sand - pockmarks all over. Now stick a few wide funnels above the beach and have the same shower pass over - the beach is not riddles with channels and gullies, where the funnels have concentrated the water into streams that have the power to alter the terrain below.

 

As time passes, in a mind where funnels are not identified and rooted out, the landscape becomes more and more eroded until the 'viewer' of the landscape can only see one view, one course, one set of choices. Usually at that point we used to have them locked away, but these days, many are CEO's and/or hold positions of power where they can enforce their views on the rest of us.

 

What Ed Bernays and others have done is to identify ways to bypass the conscious mind and force 'Aristotelian' landscapes on us. They use symbols and archetypes to slip in past awareness and implant concepts and desires so as to force us to make choices THEY decide we should make. They get to mould the valleys and channels for us, often before we have matured enough to reject or even be aware of what is going on; how many times have we seen TV used as a babysitter? Why do you think adverts are 60secs or less in length?

 

As long ago as 1930's, Count Alfred Korzybski suggested a better way to view the world, a more 'Human' way, by teaching ourselves to pause before we decide to do things. In that pause, we learn to review all we know of the situation so we can make informed decisions.

 

Ever since then the pressure and programming has been laid on to ensure people never grow into the Human they could be - such a person is pretty much immune to programming and would automatically reject the sneaky messages of advertising AND the compulsions to Buy, Buy, Buy and keep the pirates in power.

 

Codi727 is merely a reflection of the programmed ones. He has bought the package and after a lifetime of believing wholly in the 'One Truth' that has been sold to the citizens of the US (& imitated in many other countries) he now has very few funnels but they are HUGE ones - almost everyone who disagrees with him is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, with no chance of actually having anything meaningful to contribute.

 

We all have to be wrong, or he would need to re-evaluate his entire life and risk finding many things that are false-to-facts. Not many people can face such a revision.

Caca and ande like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh... and this...? 

 

 

First off GaryD you started a thread about happenings in America that would draw in your American members because I can't believe that Aussies in general really care about what goes on here.  So you targeted the Americans on your forum in particular.

 

I call BS. I have been to the US and know many Americans and I am a talker. I would wager, notwithstanding my general contempt for the sheeple who live a life of not wanting to ever think, that Aussies and Europeans are probably, across the spectrum of people in any society, far more aware of the world around and what goes on in it than the average (or even above average) American. 

 

As proof of the wrongness in what Codi believes about Aussies, I offer that this forum has not been this active in all the weeks since it became APNation - and this thread has grown rapidly. So I would suggest the members (including us Aussies) DO care about such things.

 

I would also point out, if Codi would like to compare interests in the world, he can go look up the percentages of people in various countries who have passports. Until about 2006, around 20% of US citizens held a passport; it has jumped markedly since then, (circa 30+% as of 2012) so much so that it might be why the US Govt has implemented recent changes to make ALl US citizens pay US taxes, even if they now live elsewhere and pay taxes locally. 

 

In Australia, for example, the figure is closer to 65% and has been pretty steady up around that for decades. And we are way behind countries like Germany (over 90%) In 2009, 6 million Aussies went overseas, roughly 1/3rd of the population. For the US to achieve that they would need 100 million to travel. As of last year, even after the jump in passports of the previous 5 years, only 30 million Americans travelled.

 

*grins* I rest my case on whether or not Aussies might be interested in a discussion about foreign countries.

Edited by Journeyman (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Journeyman,

You are definitely on to something. I've noticed my fellow Americans that haven't been out of the country let alone their state seem to be the ones that have contempt for those that are not Americans. And I say this as someone that loves my country as much as the next American having served in the Armed Forces, have ancestors that go back to 1650 here, with a father and son that served as patriots in the revolutionary war.

Some of us in my country seem to think the world revolves around the U.S. which is not the case.

When i've been to Europe (my mother's side is German) i'm really impressed how much they know about what goes on in the U.S. and how many even speak English fluently. I have no doubt you are well versed on world affairs as well.

I look forward to visting the land down under some day.

Edited by Cecil (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The American view of the world IS changing...

 

It used to be...

the-world-according-to-america-2.png

 

As they became more involved in the world (& learned that there aren't really either dragons or Santa Claus :D) it became...

americanworld.jpg

 

With the development of the internet, where many in the US could get an online view of things 'out there' it became...

The-World-According-To-Americans-1020.jp

 

Of course, none of that matches the view of the world once the Corporateers and Banksters got involved...

worldaccordingtoamerica.jpg

bigdaddy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mark,

 

If you're nothing else, you're thorough.

 

So, what's the current state of affairs around the shutdown?  Any sign of a compromise.....or a breakthrough of some kind?

 

Gary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi folks,

 

I really like America and it's people....

 

I've just returned from overseas and had my mind blown away by what is happening....

 

I can't help but to think America will not be "The world power" in the very near future...

 

I guess we went from Rome to England to America so I guess the world power does change from time to time.

 

I think we need to get over it and deal with it regardless of how we really feel, because there is not a single thing us mere plebs can do about it....Sorry but we can't....

 

Meanwhile America is "The world power" So let's talk about this shutdown....

 

Is it a political move by both major parties?...

 

And how will America get past this?

 

I'm sorry folks....I am quite ignorant when it comes to American politics and simply do not understand what is happening and what is supposed to be achieved by all this....

 

Thoughts?...

 

Cheers.

Edited by bigdaddy (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If nothing else, it highlights that the people supposedly providing leadership in the States are far more interested in personal power politics than they are in building a better America for their voters to live in.

 

Years back, the VPSA (a Union for Victorian Public Service members) played politics right at the time they were needed by the 100's of thousands of people affected/employed by the Public service conditions. Many thousands of their members lost significant sums of money owed to them by the Govt because the Union failed in their duty right at the time they should have been protecting their members.

 

Because they were busy bitching about who should be leader of the Union and spent their time trying to tear down other factions, by the end of a year they had lost huge numbers of members. 

 

The Union never recovered and today is a shadow of what it once was. 

 

It's why, when it comes up, I try to persuade people to vote 'None Of You Bastards!' at their elections. Voting informal or donkey voting doesn't send a message - a significant number of people writing a common theme would provide a shock to politicians that would cause them to realise they were losing the assumed-permanent players who enable their petty power games. 

 

Nothing gets a pollies attention better than the sudden realisation the People no longer want to vote for them... ANY of them. They rely on us playing their silly game, and don't really care at the Party level who we vote for provided we keep playing.

 

I think the US people are way past the time they should be kicking all the bastards out of office and starting again. In a country that supposedly won a war against the British Empire and to this day has every President a descendant of the Royal Houses of Europe, the People seem blithely unconcerned about just who is making them bend over and bare all. 

 

It would be nice to think politicians could be concerned enough about their responsibilities to have a crisis of conscience, but that is something that rarely survives (if ever present in them to begin with) past the first time they compromise to get their way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here in the states we've seen many rights lost and watched our government break the very rules it was built to protect...

 

we've seen them using drones against citizens. we've seen them ignore troops in need. we've seen them spy on the citizens with the whole nsa bit... and the spying wasnt the worst part of that...

 

with the nsa scandal we've seen the government not only break a law but also prove that it will go to great lengths to keep its actions hidden... now follow me here. we have laws to protect people who expose the company they work for when they do something illegal, the whistle blower laws. where a company cannot retaliate against the whistle blower. that's all fine and dandy unless the company you work for, and yes, the government is a company that generates revenue, is the united states government. you see, they've created this loop hole where anything deemed "classified"  must remain secret lest ye want to be committing treason (which is punishable by death...). so how then can someone working for the government let anyone know about anything going on that is illegal? the answer is, you can't. 

 

our government cares about it's people about as mush as a colony cares about a single ant. the worst part is since it has it's hands in the media, the government has us chasing after each other instead of chasing after the government... ever since the government has started to slip down hill the media has been pushing the terror issues and race related issues down our throats just to create resentment between people and to not have us focus our attention on the government itself. we were more or less (70-80%) past the whole race issues up until that treyvon martin thing hit the national news... that incident alone and the presidents take on it set back decades of hard work in the realm of racial equality...

 

 

like i said in a previous post... our government has been caught screwing up on an unprecedented level lately... i wouldnt be the least bit surprised if this whole shut down ordeal isnt just a way to get us to want the government back as if it's the only hand that feeds... really what have they shut down? national parks and museums... WOW? so people not working will get their free benefits and food stamps a bit later than usual... serves them right in my eyes... the whole world thinks the ship is sinking and all that really happened is a few weddings at yellow stone and the grand canyon got canceled... if we were in some real financial trouble the people of congress would stop getting paid when they stopped working... in which they havent...

 

the main problem is funding... the united states spent more money on war in the last 5 years than would be needed to cure world wide poverty 10 times over...  this is to say that if you take the amount we spent on war and split it up equally to everyone on the globe, everyone would be sitting mighty pretty financially speaking... but instead, the united states decided that invading every country on theplanet by force rather than charity was more important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

It's a tactic. Blame Ed Bernays and his descendants. Here is how it works... (thank Edward de Bono for the bits you agree with and blame me for where you don't... :D)

 

Imagine a baby mind - it's like a rolling pasture, or maybe a dune desert. Data comes in like rain, making indentations. A lot of data in one area will erode a gully, then a valley. Considerations (in psych terms, a preconceived bias or idea) will form a blockage, diverting the data-rain and forming rivers etc. After a while the mind looks like EEG_3D_spectrum.jpgEEG_3D_spectrum.jpg

 

This is actually a picture of something else but it gives a good representation. 

 

Now, in a normal mind, we have lots of different filters, mostly established in our early years when the mind is forming the hills and valleys, They can also be called labels or in Edward de Bono's terms, funnels. They are artefacts of the 2-valued 'Aristotelian' universe we have been programmed into. ('if you're not with us, you're against us..., Christians/Atheists, Democrats/Republicans, Americans/Everyone else etc.) and they are false-to-facts. 

 

Worse, the funnels grow as time passes. We start with including all (say) Democrats in our group because we identify with Democrat policies. Anyone who differs in view must clearly be a Republican. But that Democrat over there thinks this particular policy is wrong, so he clearly doesn't belong with real Democrats. The problem is, either someone fits in a funnel or they don't; there are no half-funnels.

 

And those funnels/labels exaggerate differences. Imagine a beach, nice smooth sand, and a rain shower passes over. After it is gone the rain has made barely any impression in the sand - pockmarks all over. Now stick a few wide funnels above the beach and have the same shower pass over - the beach is not riddles with channels and gullies, where the funnels have concentrated the water into streams that have the power to alter the terrain below.

 

As time passes, in a mind where funnels are not identified and rooted out, the landscape becomes more and more eroded until the 'viewer' of the landscape can only see one view, one course, one set of choices. Usually at that point we used to have them locked away, but these days, many are CEO's and/or hold positions of power where they can enforce their views on the rest of us.

 

What Ed Bernays and others have done is to identify ways to bypass the conscious mind and force 'Aristotelian' landscapes on us. They use symbols and archetypes to slip in past awareness and implant concepts and desires so as to force us to make choices THEY decide we should make. They get to mould the valleys and channels for us, often before we have matured enough to reject or even be aware of what is going on; how many times have we seen TV used as a babysitter? Why do you think adverts are 60secs or less in length?

 

As long ago as 1930's, Count Alfred Korzybski suggested a better way to view the world, a more 'Human' way, by teaching ourselves to pause before we decide to do things. In that pause, we learn to review all we know of the situation so we can make informed decisions.

 

Ever since then the pressure and programming has been laid on to ensure people never grow into the Human they could be - such a person is pretty much immune to programming and would automatically reject the sneaky messages of advertising AND the compulsions to Buy, Buy, Buy and keep the pirates in power.

 

Codi727 is merely a reflection of the programmed ones. He has bought the package and after a lifetime of believing wholly in the 'One Truth' that has been sold to the citizens of the US (& imitated in many other countries) he now has very few funnels but they are HUGE ones - almost everyone who disagrees with him is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, with no chance of actually having anything meaningful to contribute.

 

We all have to be wrong, or he would need to re-evaluate his entire life and risk finding many things that are false-to-facts. Not many people can face such a revision.

 

That's some pretty heavy stuff! It's going to take me some time to digest it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The American view of the world IS changing...

 

It used to be...

the-world-according-to-america-2.png

 

As they became more involved in the world (& learned that there aren't really either dragons or Santa Claus :D) it became...

americanworld.jpg

 

With the development of the internet, where many in the US could get an online view of things 'out there' it became...

The-World-According-To-Americans-1020.jp

 

Of course, none of that matches the view of the world once the Corporateers and Banksters got involved...

worldaccordingtoamerica.jpg

 

 

Love it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Though there was "no deal" made at the White House meeting this evening, it does appear that they are getting closer to an "agreement".  Soon we'll get to listen to politicians from both parties claim credit for it. hehe...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Though there was "no deal" made at the White House meeting this evening, it does appear that they are getting closer to an "agreement". Soon we'll get to listen to politicians from both parties claim credit for it. hehe...

You got that right! I think that's what the hold up is. One party needs to save face by tellng their constiuents they came up with something worthwhile.

Edited by Cecil (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has a severe income inequality problem.  I'm talking about 1% of the population owns something like 40% of the entire wealth of the country.  Is Australia anything like that?  I wonder if other industralized European nations are similar.
 

http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-americans-are-completely-wrong-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the recent 'Occupy' movement rallies showed that the inequity is prevalent all around the world... and getting worse. CEO and other executive salaries are artificially raising the average wage so Govts can claim all is well, bu int reality a much larger 5'age of the population is struggling to cope with necessities.

 

Watching the banks steadily raise the difference between their home rates and the official rates just adds to the pain. In Australia the official is 2.5% and has been for a while, but every time the rate rises the banks lift immediately by the full rise or more, and when it goes down they might give half the amount if we're lucky. Currently most bank rates are about twice the official rate.

 

Another part of the problem is most home are being bought by investors, which means the struggling family can't get into the market and so pays out in rent. If they do manage to buy in, the market changes drain their income faster than they can increase it and soon the are back in the rental market again. IMO what the Govt needs to do is tax investment properties so families can compete on the market. Instead they give things like a First Home Buyers grant and instantly all the home sales jump by that amount, meaning the 1st home buyer is back to square one.

 

As for playing the stock market, that is pretty much not an option for 90% of the people - they don't know enough to get ahead of the curve and they can't invest enough to make much difference to their income position.

 

There's a graphic on here I posted showing how 143 multinationals own/control more than 60% of the world resources via controlling interests in 1300+ other multinationals, which then control something like 48,000+ smaller multinationals. It makes it very difficult to determine who is running what and who is deciding actions and policy, but recently some of the info coming out about war, big pharma, food and water resources etc. make it clear there are games being played at world level that most of us have very little awareness of and no say in.

 

With the MSM content to play propaganda arm to the multinationals and our Govts failing their duty of care to the People, it is very difficult to raise awareness of just how little say we have in our futures. Our Govts sell our property (power, gas, transport, water) off to private Corporations whose sole interest is making profits for a small group of owners and our services promptly become less reliable and/or effective and much more expensive - a difficult-to-imagine feat from the PoV we had when the Govt ran them. We thought Govt bureaucracies were responsible for (say) inefficient public transport - watching the private corporations run them into the ground makes us older folk wish for the days when public servants ran the trains, trams and buses.

 

Watching Govts play their stupid penis-size games while the People suffer makes it blindingly clear these political scumbags operate solely for their own ends and not for any purpose related to making things better for their employers (the People, not the kick-back and bribery corporate types)

 

Even the US Obamacare situation seems to be aimed at getting more people involved in getting care paid for by the Govt ... which goes, not into better care, but to the insurance companies. There's not much point in instituting a Health Care system in the US until they get the insurance leech detached from the process so the costs can drop down to what the rest of the world pays. Otherwise it is just Obama saying, 'insurance companies used to get a chunk of money from (say) 50 million people, now I'm going to make sure they get a chunk from 200 million.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I wonder if other industralized European nations are similar.

 

Nope, not by far.

You'll find Russia, and some other, former Soviet Union countrys, with their Oligarcy are simmilare, but not as bad as the US, they all have, some sort of free health care, and free education, all though not equal.

When you google " income inequality in the us compared to other countries "

You get hits like this :

http://inequality.org/ilo-report-inequality-literally-chart/

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/09/us-income-inequality-its-worse-today-than-it-was-in-1774/262537/

http://economy.money.cnn.com/2012/06/27/oced-warns-u-s-on-income-inequality/

 

Showing the difference in developement in the US, compared to the rest of the world economys.

Some poster above in the thread said Canada have a terrible health system because Canadians go to the US to buy/get a opperation. Well "a lot of" Norwegians go to the US, or other countrys, to get treathement, on differente illneses as well, mostly it's paid for by our health care system (some do it private by choice) The idea is that if you are sick more than 4-8 weeks, it's a big cost to society as a hole (lack of income means, lack of tax, and lack of money to use in the general economy) so the country (Norway) benefit as a hole from people being fit to work and spending money, as a result of this logic (comunist ?) most health care services are "free" and if there is a que on the spesific need, buy it abroad (offshore). The system does normaly not pay for cosmetic surgery other than "needed" (result of injuries and/or abnormalities are paid for but not fanity).

 

Our public health care funds, are with the state, not with innsurance companys.

 

Sad to say it's easyer for me(Norwegians) to achive "The American Dream" in the US as of to day, any Norwegian can get funding by the governement to study at home or abroad, so if you qualify intelectualy you just aply for the funding, deepending on your "fortune" you will either get it as a loan or a scollarship (commonly 50/50) pay back over 30 years no interest ,or down payment untill 15 months after you have established a income (if your income is to low, you can get payments postsponed, but interest will "normaly" start run).

So any Norwegian (rich or poor) with a avarage IQ/skill, can have a financed, go at a uni level, if interessted (aprox 40 % finish a college deegre of some kind). You are covered by our public health care system, when abroad, including transport home, and/or to the nearest hospital, if that is better for your spesific surcumstances/problem, with werry few exceptions, anounced by our foreign office (declared war zones etc.).

 

As a curiosiety (other big difference from the US compared to Norway) We just had "fall break" here, it's a "old" traditional break, for students to be able to go home to help out home, on the farms, at fall harwest time (hardly any knows it's origin or participate in such activeties, anymore).  I heard on the news how the trend was changing, about how people spent their "fall break".

"Only" 40 % went abroad,a cruise, a palm beach...... etc. a few years back it was up to 70%, now the trend are doing something "alone" or with friends, the boys/gals rather than a family thing, it was like hiking in the wildernes, hills, canoing, fishing, hunting etc. prusuing a pasion or hobby.... 

(the difference)

But overall it didn't effect the avarege of going abroad.

In the course of a year, still 60-70% of the "middleclass" (counting 70% of the population here) trawell abroad, twice a year, on longer hollyday/vacation, counting weekend(another trend) tours to London, Milan, New York, Barcelona, Copenhagen..... etc. off work time,  we go abroad 7-10 times a year.

Resent years it has been a increase, in aranging work kickoff event tours abroad as well.(you are on sallary, not using your off time)

 

I'm not saying this is a ideal, but it sure is a big difference compared to average in the US.

I do think going abroad, for any nationality, is educating towards your mindset, and opening your eyes, on both the, negative and positive sides, of your homelands way, on all matters.

We have poverty, unemployment ................. etc. but more equality IMO and I wish for you guys to have the same, of all my heart

 

Edit: I just had to add this video

hehe

Edited by ande (see edit history)
bigdaddy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interestingly today in 1975 was the day everything started that led to The Governor General sacking the government on 11th November 1975.

 

Here's some interesting reading for those who are interested...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitutional_crisis

 

I still do not understand what The American politicians really want to achieve by this current situation...

 

Cheers.

Edited by bigdaddy (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

The US has a severe income inequality problem.

 

Among western nations, the US probably has the widest gap between the haves and have-nots.....but the problem is far from being exclusive to the US.  

 

Most western nations have a welfare "safety net" that offsets the harshest impacts of the gap.....certainly more than seems to be the case in the US.....and this serves to anaethetise the general population of those countries to the fact that the "one percenters" are ripping them off.

 

One of the major differences between most Australians and many Americans is that Americans seem to be educated to (and more accepting of) the notion that people of extreme wealth deserve what they have......almost without consideration of how they came to get it.  

 

There also seems to be the perception that, if you have a house, a reasonable salary (or a profitable small business) and some of the other trappings of success, you're a member of the Have Club. 

 

Once again, this outlook is not uncommon in Australia....but it does seem to be accepted to a far greater extent in the US.

 

How 'bout this for a perspective?  

 

Far from being eliminated in western nations, slavery is alive and well.  The principal difference between traditional slaves and their modern western equivalent is that the latter are self-funding.  Modern slave owners (like News Corp, Halliburton, Shell, GM, Monsanto et al) don't need to bear the cost of housing and feeding their slaves......because they fill the slaves' heads with poop about self-reliance to the point where they do it themselves.   Whenever the slaves appear to be "gittin' uppity" their owners simply move production off-shore to a more obvious slavery regime (like China) and produce a financial crisis that scares the slaves at home into moderating their expectations.

 

And here's the kicker, the brainwashing is so complete that the slaves actually think that they are "living the dream."  The reward for good slaves is the right to vote (but without the capacity to change the status quo).....and  access to "bread and circuses" to take their mind off why their arse hurts so much.

 

Gary

Journeyman likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now