Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
TomD

Fish to Grow Bed Ratio and Gallons of Water in fish tank

12 posts in this topic

Can anyone tell me the ratio's needed in a mature system to have and successful garden? Do the fish supply all the nutrients, other than micro, to support the garden? Tom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andre I haven't read the second website posting but the first was wonderful. It however was very scientific and really didn't address the reality of amateur aquaponics. Do you have any personal experience in the real world of amateur AP? While the information was informative it doesn't address the real world issues of people like me. Real life experience is required and it seldom resembles text book insight. What would you suggest for someone just starting out? Remember I and others live in the real world. From what I read AP is not for the the average person. Correct me if I'm wrong. Tom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It however was very scientific and really didn't address the reality of amateur aquaponics.

? I dissagree, all the factsheets from Aquaponics Solutions are relevante in amateur/semipro/pro aquaponics.

In the heading/intro on the page you didn't read this message:

" Our philosophy at Aquaponics is to NOT "re-invent the wheel" in terms of aquaponic technical design and operation, but rather, to use, evolve and adapt the existing technological information available.

"might be "the best" advice IMO

Do you have any personal experience in the real world of amateur AP?

Yes, but my personal experience is mainly on restoring wetland, spawning creeks, ponds, handeling black/grey water and flow through raceways.

RAS I only play with in small units for fun and kitchen garden and I'w been involved in some small hatcery RAS as part of the restoring of wild fish habitats.

While the information was informative it doesn't address the real world issues of people like me.

I don't understand what you mean with this statement ?

What are the real world issues ? what are people like you ?

Real life experience is required and it seldom resembles text book insight.

?

I agree that experience is nice makes things easyer as you gain it, but text book insight, will most often give you a head start, provide basic guidelines and more important, a understanding of what not to do. IMO

What would you suggest for someone just starting out?

The blue text above (as well as the rest you find on the fact sheets)

Adjust or fill in your location in your profile I have no idea where sc is, what continent ?

climate zone etc.

If you do that you might get the attention of other AP'ers near you, or at least with simmilare climate, regulations, resources, local knowledge etc. etc.

WATER source(s) volume/temp./quality is a key factor IMO

Use local (climate vise) species as you gain experience maybe advance towards more excotic if you want, but it often requires more energy (heating/cooling) wich means more$

Learn read up on fish husbandry (BMP) not only will it save you money, it's also essential to provide healthy food, and the ethical "right" with any livestock IMO

Remember I and others live in the real world.

Hehe, You think the south coast of Norway, is not a part of "the real world" ?

From what I read AP is not for the the average person. Correct me if I'm wrong. Tom

"The average person" (from the real world that is ?) will do fine with AP

given you have the time/space/interest IMO

cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Ande What I was looking for is someone who practiced what I was asking questions about. Your postings do provide a starting point. Apparently if I want a PHD in aquaponics, according to the posting, I need to come up with something new. Reinventing the wheel? I'm not going to pick apart your responses but I usually get responses such as your. It's typical and easy for people to post something then say read it and understand it when question further. Must be the scientist in you and definitely not the real world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can anyone tell me the ratio's needed in a mature system to have and successful garden? Do the fish supply all the nutrients, other than micro, to support the garden? Tom

Hi again TD

I'll try a different aproach.

To me AP is about filtering the water for the fish so they thrive, wiche means enoughf plants, edible and ornamental, to suport wich ever zise (volume ) biomas (fish/fishfood) I have at any given time.

It's difficulte to define a sucsessful garden.

AP is only a small part of my garden, and deepending on how much time I have at hand.

I have a 6year old boy wich is fond of the pond,fish,plants......

So this year it's about his fish/plants/system and probbably his rabbit(s)?

The sucsess, is meassured in time spent with him theatching him husbandry.

Iff you meassure sucsess in produce volume conventional growing might be a better route ?

I'm definetly living in the real world, and like to play with the water in the garden integrating plants.

You don't need a phd or be a sientist, Look towards the koi pond comunitys a lot of good advice to find there IMO on plumbing parts ratios etc etc

The lingo might be a bit different from AP lingo but you soon get it, if not just ask.

I didn't mean to be hostile, in my former respons, but might not understand what you are asking ?

Again the fish part(health/BMP) should be the primary focus IMO

Biger volumes (water)and few fish is easyer to handel, things dosen't change so rappidly as in smaller volumes.

cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ande I'm asking questions on this site to elicit feed back from the experts on how to grow successfully in AP. On this site you don't get these responses. You get them from people starting out and he give suggestions and thoughts to what they have done. I find these people are more informative than any expert, at least so far. Your info was truly appreciated but you have to have experience in home aquaponics before you can comment on operating one. I have a successful AP system in which I grow numerous vegetables, truly AP?? Many think just because you use fish water it's AP. Who knows. But your right about what a successful AP garden requires. My plants grow in a variety of media including soil/compost. Several grow beds are gravel based and operate flood and drain. Take tomatoes they require more nutrients than a fish can provide so I add what they need. Still AP? My fish (400) in approx. 500 gallons of water can't keep up with the nutrient requirements of my small garden, approx. 160 square feet in total. Hence my questions about fish, grow beds etc. I'm trying to pick the brains of people who have been there done that. Hope this explains somewhat my though process. Tom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the issue here is in the title of this post. Asking about "Fish to Grow Bed Ratio and Gallons of Water in fish tank". Asking that question around here is like asking "How do I fly a sleigh with reindeer?"

So we ask the questions differently.

How much water do I need in my fish tank?

That depends on how many fish you want, the tank density of those fish you are able to keep, and the type of fish.

Yeah but how many fish do I need?

That depends on how much food you need them to eat and the type of fish.

Ok, So how much food do the fish need to eat?

They need to eat enough food to supply what the plants need...

...Don't tell me. That will depend of the type of plants I want to grow.

Yes.

If this Wilson guy is so smart why doesn't he also just make a spreadsheet with all this info calculated for me?

He did. ​http://www.aquaponic.com.au/calculators.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another wise-ass response. Keep it up you might make super moderator some day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Tom,

Another wise-ass response. Keep it up you might make super moderator some day.
Can anyone tell me the ratio's needed in a mature system to have and successful garden? Do the fish supply all the nutrients, other than micro, to support the garden?
Calm down......you're expecting specific questions to general questions. I posted some links on your welcome post. Did you bother to read any of them.
Ande I'm asking questions on this site to elicit feed back from the experts on how to grow successfully in AP.
And Ande pointed you to one of the more approachable experts - Dr Wilson Lennard.
On this site you don't get these responses. You get them from people starting out and he give suggestions and thoughts to what they have done. I find these people are more informative than any expert, at least so far.
We have a mix of experience and expertise.....but I'm not sure from this remark exactly what you're looking for.
Your info was truly appreciated but you have to have experience in home aquaponics before you can comment on operating one.
Ande has more than enough experience of aquaculture (and related matters) to advise you once he knows exactly what you need. English is his second language....and he's more comfortable using links to point people to what he thinks are seeking.
I have a successful AP system in which I grow numerous vegetables, truly AP?? Many think just because you use fish water it's AP. Who knows. But your right about what a successful AP garden requires. My plants grow in a variety of media including soil/compost. Several grow beds are gravel based and operate flood and drain. Take tomatoes they require more nutrients than a fish can provide so I add what they need. Still AP? My fish (400) in approx. 500 gallons of water can't keep up with the nutrient requirements of my small garden, approx. 160 square feet in total.
This is where you are confusing people. On the one hand you are seeking answers to questions about running a successful system.....and yet you already have one. Do you understand how you might be confusing people.
Hence my questions about fish, grow beds etc. I'm trying to pick the brains of people who have been there done that. Hope this explains somewhat my though process.
Let's seek if I can meet your expectations.

Before that happens, let me talk briefly about my background. I've been micro-farming for over 30 years and I wrote the Urban Aquaponics Manual......and I've been running this forum since 2007 during which I've been dispensing advice like you're seeking.

Can anyone tell me the ratio's needed in a mature system to have and successful garden? Do the fish supply all the nutrients, other than micro, to support the garden?
Some people do relate to ratios but I think most of them are bunkum.

If you only want to keep a few lightly fed fish......at a low pH......and harvest a few salads, you don't need to put much into your system other than a bit of SeaSol or Maxicrop - just to ensure that all of the micro-nutrients are available.

My approach (and the one that I recommend to other people) is to set their backyard systems up using the integrated aquaculture model where you manage water quality with the fish and efficiency in mind.

That means having good filtration systems in place and feeding your fish as a proportion of their bodyweight. This means that the natural acidification that occurs in such a system will require regular dosing with calcium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide (never at the same time) and some chelated iron.

In a backyard system, this can be done daily at feeding time.......as a proportion of the amount of feed that you are giving the fish......or you can take the same approach I do.

My rainwater is very close to neutral (around pH 7.0) so, rather than messing around with adjusting pH, I just feed my fish what they will eat. We ensure adequate water quality by taking water from my systems to water our wicking beds and trees.....and then top them up with fresh rainwater.

Do you have any specific questions with which I can assist you?

Gary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 2 carrots and a hand full of rice worth.

Perhaps a good approach would be to ascertain what it is you are hoping to end up with (type of fish and size over X period and specific amount of edible vegetable bio-mass) then work it backwards. Do you want to feed seven billion people (bordering wise-ass here) or just your family?

Nothing, except possibly sunlight, is free. Its Bio-mass in Bio-mass out. I tend to agree with Jobney, your original question is miss-leading and certainly vague to say the least. And of coarse the dusi (pointed out by Gary) was when you stated that you are already running a successful system! Now i can be forgiven for being a little backward (i am from a third world country after all) but what was the point of the post in the first place? do you have a specific gripe with this specific forum? if so please consider the Buddhist approach and be still (very wise-ass there)

good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I took my time to be honestly helpful. You ask a question that has no answer because there is no ratio between the size of the fish tank and the grow bed. Ande provides links and you complain they are too scientific. The information in Ande's links is the same info anyone else on this site should give. You attack the information because you disagree with the person presenting it.

As you have stated in another thread, "This is the problem with AP. It's made to sound simple but it's not." That's totally true. That is why we don't give simple answers. Wilson's document has the answers. These systems don't work by magic. Can one just throw fish and water together and expect a home aquarium to work? Can someone dump some random hydroponic solution on some plants and expect amazing results? You can't do either of these and you can't cram them together and expect it to be easy as you yourself have already stated. I'm sorry that you feel you've been sold the idea that AP can be "made easy" by someone else. Building the plumbing is easy. Fish keeping and plant growing both require skills that are outside the mainstream. Putting them together with plumbing is not going to mitigate the complexity it is going to make it more complex.

One of the primary missions of this forum is to demystify the hobby of AP. Too many people end up disappointed in AP because they did not want a hobby. They wanted to just follow some simple and often contradictory 'rule(s) of thumb' and just grow some plants and fish. Giving information as a 'rule of thumb' is taboo on this forum. We like the complexity, we like learning, we like the challenge. I would say most of us like the challenge more then the results. Most of us already know how to grow garden plants and enjoy it. We just wanted to make it harder on ourselves for fun.

One last thing... You are adding sarcasm into our posts when none is implied. If I made my statements in a video presentation there would have been no misunderstanding.

Another wise-ass response. Keep it up you might make super moderator some day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0