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ande

Encourages Boy’s Urge to Hunt

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I am a avid hunter / fisherman... thankful to have been able to take both of my teenage boys on many hunts, they have even harvested bigger bucks than myself. I am proud of their accomplishments, even when they chide me for not harvesting deer as big as theirs. They have both been raised around firearms and have taken a firearm safety course. I urge caution in any mentoring program. For many years we could not get a hunting license without having gone thru a hunters safety program, and the minimum age restrictions having been met, 14 years.... now they are opening it up to a mentoring hunt with formal safety training being optional, and no minimum age.... the responsibility for safety falls on the one mentoring them here. Please be sure all individuals in your hunting groups are properly trained in firearm safety. And then, by all means... enjoy yourself in the pursuit of this wonderful outdoor pastime.

Edited by GaryD
Removal of Off-topic material - GD (see edit history)

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Hi,

I think that hunting (for those with access to the land and game birds and animals) is a good way to supplement a pantry.

A program of the type proposed by Ande.....where young people are mentored by responsible adults (whether it be around hunting or anything else).....is a good thing.

I agree with Weldnfab.....instructing youngsters in the safe use of firearms is essential.

Instruction in hunting techniques that don't involve guns is also very handy......particularly where guns are in short supply. I'm thinking of slingshots and archery......and falconry, ferrets and lurchers......and traps of various kinds.

Gary

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Hi Gary

Thanks for cleaning up the thread.

Arround here "slingshots and archery......and falconry, ferrets and lurchers" have been baned,it's seen as inhumane methods of killing the game, so it is slowly becoming, a lost, or forgotten art of hunting.

Snares and a few type traps is still legal on a few types of game. and can be performed alone from age 12 alone here, but you still would have to do the mandatory, basic hunting training/course and pay the hunting fees before any hunt is legal.

Hunting with firearms can start at age 14 but only with parents consent and under supervision/mentoring.

Small game hunt, with firearms, can be carried out "alone" but the mentor is the legal responssible party, and the mentor shall be able to interveen ? so how do you do that? lacks of logic in the law here IMO

Big game 18 years.

Well out in the Country side there is a lot of people breaken this laws, generally seen as silly laws made by bigcity academics out of tutch with the wildernes/hunting/reality, but people are generally lawabiding so it stops quite alot of youngsters as well a shame IMO

My daughter (20 years) did all formal hunters training this year, and I love to see how she have picked up the interest "again" she came along with me and her older brother (22) but lost interest at 13-14, but now its full throtle, hope it lasts.

cheers

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our firearm laws also state the ability to intervene... which to our fish and game department... is close enough to control the safety of the firearm... for several years I would situate my son on one side of the tree and me sitting around on the other...( whether for squirrels or deer) he watched for game one way, I covered the opposite....

often people will situate their youngsters quite some distance away and sit another spot themselves to hunt.... definately not able to intervene. sometimes not even be able to see their youth hunter.... this is all about the ability to render immediate safety/assistance if needed.

I have never tried the falconry, and the ferets type of pursuits I believe is illegal here. but both sound kinda interesting. Archery is another favorite pastime.

Sorry if I come off strong guys, but some people do not have a safety concious enough for themselves, and are assuming the responsibilty for mentoring others. firearm safety has always been foremost in my home... we own many firearms, and quite frequently my concealed carry handguns are out, ready for immediate use. The balance are in a custom made steel firearms vault ....fact is... I just bought my son a high powered rifle for his birthday, the day after christmas..... he's gonna be 15 years old, and has repeatedly demonstrated the ability to be safe and responsible with mine. This too will be locked up in the vault between hunting/target sessions. cheers.

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Weldnfab,

I agree with everything you've said about the need for safety around guns.

Much discussion has focused on deliberate damage done by guns but the tragedy of accidental shootings often goes relatively unnoticed.

Gary

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thanks gary, I wish we could get everyone to acknowledge the need for firearms safety, and the respect for their power, and possible pastime pleasures....along with respect for human life and our fellow human beings... maybe we could get back to really living and forget about the ugly side of human nature and disrespect of others.

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Hi Weldnfab,

thanks gary, I wish we could get everyone to acknowledge the need for firearms safety, and the respect for their power, and possible pastime pleasures....along with respect for human life and our fellow human beings... maybe we could get back to really living and forget about the ugly side of human nature and disrespect of others.

If licensing firearms arouses paranoia, perhaps we should consider licensing shooters.

If, as some people believe, guns don't kill people (but rather people kill people), maybe a pre-requisite for buying, carrying or using a gun should be that the person takes a training course to establish their competency with a firearm......as evidenced by a license.

Accidental gun deaths are, statistically-speaking, nowhere near other gun-related violence....but that's little comfort to those who lose loved ones.

Gary

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Hi Weldnfab,

If licensing firearms arouses paranoia, perhaps we should consider licensing shooters.

Hi Gary

What you suggest is partly implemented (takes a long time) around here in Norway and in most of EU, in different variations (cultural/historical/geografical "needs" or "customs" makes out the variations)

I think the propper term here (in this thread) would be educating HUNTERS not shooters, there is however a general basics, wich howm all gunowners, have to comply to (storage of guns/munitions)

And before you can buy purcase any FIREARMS (bacome a licensed HUNTER)

(air/soft/replica -guns and bow/crosbow, are free if 16 years. With parents consent, at any age, you can "own and use" (supervised/guardian legal party) here in Norway.

You(Norway) have to apply to buy a gun (exact same way as with drivers license ....... et.)

with your LOCAL police juristiction(being your official home adress, last 2 years)

They have to handle your application within 3 weeks gun/driver license (a pass port is 1 week). Normaly you can get it whilst you wait, for the official stamps etc. if you meet personaly, but if you apply by post, or in a different juristriction, there would be a handeling/prosses time aprox. 3-7 working days.

In your application you have to provide a reason or "need" to have a gun(FIREARM).

Being a "SHOOTER" is not good enoughf, nor for selfdefence, all though being a professional armed bodyguard (special licensing), allows carrying, they would carry issued(official) guns.

Beeing a HUNTER or sportsman is the two most common reasons given. (they check if you are fit suited to own a gun or drive a car........... by legal standards. after age 80 years you need to re-new your licens, with your doctor every 2.year (certify health dementia, eye-sight.............) and there might be put restrictions/limits etc.

Point is on a local level (juristiction) there is a history (legal/criminal) and a gun register.

The local fire department issues licenses if you need to store biger amounts of amunition, explocives............etc.

As a gun owner, you can store "properly" (locked and apart from the gun(s))up to 10.000 rounds.

If you want/need more stored, you can, but you need a separate building or special storage construction, inspected by local fire dep. authorietys (often in practical terms the chimney man).

To safe guard people living in the facillieties or nearby buildings. And of course to secure, the rescue teams that would be called upon in emergency situatios, they have to operate in acordance(proactive) to factual/known/defined hazzards,within the area.

In urban areas that is(obtain a permit) a bit bigger challenge, than would be on a farm(population density), iff you live like in "the outbacks" it's easy to obtain and complye.

So back to the issue hunting(or sports) firearms/munition, they can be obtained(here) if you qualify by application (like drivers license passport........), and iff you by your own actions, are caught or reported (drunk driving etc.) all your licenses might be reviewed(depending on facts health issues and or legal seriousnes, repetivnes etc.), and put on probation/limitid/lost for a period of time and/or permanently.

This can create paranoia in uneducated/ignorant minds, and there is still a cry/scream for bans on firearms in general amongst surtan groups and allways will be.

If, as some people believe, guns don't kill people (but rather people kill people)

This argument or dissagrement is a odd constructed statement that keeps arising in the ever lasting guncontroll debate.

It can not be ignored gun's KILL that is their soul purpose, when used to HUNT (you Kill the game)

Iff aimed at people they would often KILL, specialy iff used with hunting amunition is constructed to kill direct or harm so much that the target(game) bleeds to death fast if not propperly hit.

Amunition legaly (Geneva convention) used, for shooting people, is constructed to take out the object (enemy "people") with minimum necesary force, not killing, or harming the object(people) so much that it(people) dies (full metal jacket).

These and other facts about guns/munition are known, to a educated/responsible gun owner (wich are normaly proguns).

Like why don't you buy the game in a shop is a common used argument amongst anti guns debatants.

(as if the flesh/meat, you purchase in a shop/market, died a natural death).

maybe a pre-requisite for buying, carrying or using a gun should be that the person takes a training course to establish their competency with a firearm......as evidenced by a license

IMO that is more or less, the general way it's done, in most countrys, where you can legaly obtain a gun for HUNTING (or other legal purposes)

The dilema being, every time any gun is used, in a improper way "PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE" it ignates a debate wich includes the arguments to totally ban guns(FIREARMS) the tool or instrument used.

(You see the same debates on knifes...........etc , when that being the tool used to kill)

Accidental gun deaths are, statistically-speaking, nowhere near other gun-related violence....

The statistcally-speaking most common "gun related violence" is executed with a replica gun.

The wictim can't tell so the violence (percepted) being held at gun point is identical to a "real gun"

"inciden't", some (survivor) never gets over that horror.

The only person killed(last year) by the police here (Norway) and 3 shot and wounded was using replica guns (toys).

Now the police ask for a ban on those toys(replica guns) it's allredy illegal to "carry" replicas in public

bring in cabins on airplanes .........etc.

But you know what? some PEOPLE still do, so accidentaly the police KILL PEOPLE

But as you say :

.but that's little comfort to those who lose loved ones.

So should we ban toys (gun replicas)? as well/much as other guns(firearms).

Or regulate further register.................. etc gun replicas in the same way as real firearms?

Or do we look at other means, or ways, to avoid these unwanted acts of violence, accidents etc.

I don't want to cluder or this thread in to a ban gun thread, but oviously it's a legit and important part of the discussion how to train or educate responsible hunters on potential arms dangers.

Prohibiting spesific tools is of litle or no comfort no matter how you lose loved ones.

The storage and licensing of such (tools) much surtantly is a legit isue to some to avoid future accidents of simmilare character.

So discussing and shearing nearby happenings and experiences is important amongst gun owners in general

cheers

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FACT... in my home state, indeed all the U.S..... we must submit to a background check to purchase any firearm over the counter.... either pistol or rifle/shotgun. Muzzle loaders are not subject to this ruling. Your ID is carefully inspected and you are subjected to an instant verification ( pass/fail )thru the FBI. yes you take a brief questionare which is checked. You must score 100%... most stores require a managers secondary check of your ID.

FACT... we must also go thru a seperate permit/safety inspection also, whether to purchase /or even possess, anothers pistol to hunt with... as if undergoing for our own gun... which includes submitting the firearm to an inspection at the local police station.

FACT..... the issue is not respectful law-abiding gun owners going on rampages, it is illegally possessed/ stolen firearms that are predominately used to commit these horendous crimes...

FACT... most of these crimes are committed by people who are later found to be of questionable mental stability.

FACT... the goverment & national news press misrepresent these facts to turn public opinion against ownership at all...

FACT... this is the primary debate of firearm ownership in the US.

Fact... I own over 20 firearms... none have ever been unlawfully used... when my 2 boys become old enough... (not just legal age... but in my judgement, also their charactors proven) ... I will permit them to lawfully register the firearms purchased in my name for them, in their own names. Until then, all will remain in my gun vault, under my supervision.

Firearm ownership is indeed my responsibilty, and I hold the rights, and privelages thus granted by our constitutional ammendments... as "inalienable"... which is so stated in these same documents.

which is why I encourage my boys, to be responsible, safe, and to enjoy the right to hunt..... it is one of my greatest pleasures to be afield with them as they harvest game animals.... ( they have both been thru proper safety training.)

I will not go into the concealed licencing process ( the right to carry concealed firearms).... that is another background, training,testing...altogether...

side bar..........

some of the issues addressed under the Geneva convention are a joke... a bullet cannot be a hollow point/soft point by design? .... if anyone has ever personnally witnessed a hit on an animal or human... whether a .223 ( 5.56 mm) at 3000 fps , a .308 ( 7.62 ) at 2900 fps, or a .50 cal hit a living object in the vitals...... the shape of the bullet does not matter. you are damaged irrepairably.... and solders are taught to use these weapons to induce maximum damage.... they dont shoot you in the hand so you call the medic... they part your eyes and look for dog tags to identify you later..

war is indeed a horrible occurance. it has since time began, been a technological race to overcome your adversary... and when undertaken, should be our greatest endeaver to overcome with all available assets at our command... not make more laws to use against our adversaries on the worlds monkey court system. to legislate how we war?... indeed. what a farce.

Edited by weldnfab
just had to say something... (see edit history)

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Hi,

My comments had nothing to do with the matter of gun control or related issues (which should be addressed in the appropriate thread) but rather a suggestion about how we might minimise the incidence of accidental shootings......in the original spirit of the boys (and girls)/hunting thread. It was in connection with previous posts about the perceived need for safety training.

Gary

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sorry gary... off thread... but we do indeed have multiple licensing, both firearms and personal.... and firearm safety courses... the ultimate goal is for safety of all... whether they be afield hunting... or innocent civilians within range.

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Hi,

but rather a suggestion about how we might minimise the incidence of accidental shootings......in the original spirit of the boys (and girls)/hunting thread. It was in connection with previous posts about the perceived need for safety training.

Gary

Thats how I understood your post.

So I sheared the basic safety training/licensing, required here (Norway).

IMO that part(the basics) is fairly good coverd (I'm pro gun control).

The next step would be, use time time time................ and more time,be patient with the rookies, show,tell,guide, share and be a good example to follow, by your own behaviour and standards.

Be carefull not to laughf, or brag about your own failures (nearby incidents).........................

cheers

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Hi weldnfab

... now they are opening it up to a mentoring hunt with formal safety training being optional

Not so arround here, the formal basic training is mandatory no matter your age, and it is the same basics wetter you do a hunter class or a sports shooting (target/skeet/.......) class.

It includes a theoretical part 20 hours (class-room or internet) laws/regulations/etichs on guns/amunition safe(legal) handelig/storage/transport.

And a practical part (minimum 2times) on a shooting rink, where you under supervision 1 to 1 level, get to try differente calibers rifle/shot guns on targets/skeets (normaly one day rifle and one day shotgun).

Handguns (pistol/revolver) is a totaly different matter They are not alowed for hunting, except used for killing of traped game, and/or the head shot of a downd/wounded game.

To get a hand gun license you have to be 21 years age, be active member of a handgun club for minimum 6months and get a recomondation from 2 active members. The clubs have to keep a log regestring the atendence of it's members, and iff you are not atending for 24months you might loose your license and have to sell your gun, or store it in the pistol club vault.

Iff you are a farmer/trapper different rules aply but werry strict here as well..................

Any how, I saw this mentoring program, as an further, extension of educating hunters, you might not have parents/family that hunt, or have acsess to hunting land, so without such programs, on public/privat land, there is no opertunity for a youngster, to get started in "by all means... enjoy yourself in the pursuit of this wonderful outdoor pastime." as you put it.

A lot of kids (boys/girls) grow up in single parent family these days, most often with the mother, and by that, does not have the daily interaction, with the responsible masculin/male adults, often their rolemodels will be imature teenage males and/or televission/internett.

So thats why I stated in my opening post " I wish there was more of this Fish and Game Mentoring Encourages Boy "

I would say the same in other types mentoring wood/steel work shops etc.

I'w seen a few woulenter programs around here (Norway) where, retired ("elderly") acts as substitute grandparents, bringing along kids/youth in different activitys (al sorts)

We live in a time where there is a partly segregation amongst differente age groups, where parents devote all their time in their career/work, livng far from family members. Not saying it's wrong, but some important values seems to be "lost" along the road ?

IMO the loss, is on both the young and elderly they get sort of alianated, towards each other, partly do to this lack of pastime together

cheers

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Hi Ande,

We live in a time where there is a partly segregation amongst differente age groups, where parents devote all their time in their career/work, livng far from family members. Not saying it's wrong, but some important values seems to be "lost" along the road ?

IMO the loss, is on both the young and elderly they get sort of alianated, towards each other, partly do to this lack of pastime together

I agree. The relentless pursuit of "stuff" is what is keeping us from enjoying all of the things that are really important in life. We lavish all manner of plastic trash on our kids (in the apparent hope that they will think we're good parents) while denying them the things that they need most.....our time and guidance.

Programs like this (whatever its safety training shortcomings) are an important offset to the social damage done by hyper-consumption.

Gary

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