Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
helomech

Catfish dying?

Recommended Posts

whoa, thats way too much salt unless your doing a 30 second dip and even thats still high. What you are putting them in is a hypertonic solution. It will suck the water out of the fish and fungus's cells. As the fish has more layers , it will likely recover, but hopefully the fungus cells won't.

If you're planning to leave them in it for an extended period of time go with 1 to 3 tablespoons per 5 gallons. The temperature increase will help, but remember they need to be acclimated, a healthy tilapia taken from 68f water and put straight into 74+ water will likely die from the shock, especially if stressed by disease. Same goes for a change in ph of more than 1.

Try not to make drastic changes in there environment. An option would be to do a in a bucket with salt water and then into the ice chest with less salt. Try to keep the temp and ph close to the same. I personally would just put them in the ice chest with a little salt and then try to warm the water up slowly and keep it there.

I thought is was a lot, but went with the numbers. Well I think 13 are alive, and if I can keep these alive I will buy more in 2 weeks. I am trying to do all my changes very slow. 40 dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry to hear about the dead fish. i use doc wellfish´s aquarium salt 50 grams in 5 litres of water for 20 minutes and no problems. have done 3 treatments with no dead fish !?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
whoa, thats way too much salt unless your doing a 30 second dip and even thats still high. What you are putting them in is a hypertonic solution. It will suck the water out of the fish and fungus's cells. As the fish has more layers , it will likely recover, but hopefully the fungus cells won't.

If you're planning to leave them in it for an extended period of time go with 1 to 3 tablespoons per 5 gallons. The temperature increase will help, but remember they need to be acclimated, a healthy tilapia taken from 68f water and put straight into 74+ water will likely die from the shock, especially if stressed by disease. Same goes for a change in ph of more than 1.

Try not to make drastic changes in there environment. An option would be to do a in a bucket with salt water and then into the ice chest with less salt. Try to keep the temp and ph close to the same. I personally would just put them in the ice chest with a little salt and then try to warm the water up slowly and keep it there.

I dont know where you got that from ravnis 10gram per liter is quite common, and not especially high , even for 20 minutes. with tilapia i have left them in that % solution for an hour and a half with mossambicus. What makes you think that is way too much? also rather surprised that type of comment comes from a aphq ambassador who should know his fish and treatments..

Edited by mopa (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
just did the math again, 23 gallons is 87 liters. 2lb salt is 907 grams. that still puts you in the safety margin by a long way. dont get depressed!

Thanks trying not to get to frustrated. Got my 2 other temporary grow beds in place and planted a big tomato pland and big eggplant. Going to put peppers and lots of seeds in them. That should give me a lot more filtration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
just did the math again, 23 gallons is 87 liters. 2lb salt is 907 grams. that still puts you in the safety margin by a long way. dont get depressed!

Wonder what happend then. The temps where within a degree or two of each other. I put them in and caught the rest of the fish, after I caught them I went to look at the one's in the salt and they where all floating. Only took 8 minutes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you did use fish tank water into ice bucket and not new well water?! you did dissolve salt completely into it beforehand? i reckon you should get different salt..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
you did use fish tank water into ice bucket and not new well water?! you did dissolve salt completely into it beforehand? i reckon you should get different salt..

Patially new water, mixed with the water from the tank. And yes the salt was completely dissolved. Had a air stone and a water pump with air injected into it. The water was completely full of bubbles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what % new water/ tank water?

looking like nasty salt

unless there were chemicals in ice bucket..

About 50-50.

Oh the ice chest. No chemicals. It is the one we have been using to keep drinks cool and to keep the wild game we kill. I t is washed regularly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What makes me think it's way too much... several years experience with tilapia rearing now. I've had non sick tilapia handle that , but sick, stressed tilapia do like what helomech experienced, dead fish. A much lower osmotic pressure is better to attempt to recover dying tilapia. Plus the fact you have to take into consideration they could be suffering from zinc toxicity from the galvanized fitting. Salt is both good and bad. It increases zinc's toxicity in fish as zinc chloride is a lethal compound of zinc. I stand by my recommendation, but my advice is free and maybe you get what you pay for...

I had also transposed the gallons for pounds of salt and I had a figure that was ten times too high. So I made a mistake there, and apologize if it harmed anyone. Still 1 g/l is commonly used as a maintenance dose.

I don't use salt treatments as getting them in temps above 74 and they almost always recover on there own. After your system is running, you probably won't come across this problem again, except for maybe cold snaps. I see two main causes of death, suicide mostly by females being chased by males (a sight to see one jump 5 feet in the air trying to get away) and sickness after a sudden cold snap ( a greenhouse and your buried tank will help with this). Electric aquarium heaters work wonders too as previously pointed out.

In all reality the hidden bacterial infection was probably in your catfish fingerlings(not the first time I've seen this scenario on this board from a Texas supplier of catfish), combined with possibly some zinc poisoning stress from the galvanized fitting, plus stress on the biofilter from the load change, and the traveling stress combined to make a perfect storm. It's not your fault.

Corrective action items I can think of is:

100 % water change in main system if possible.

Fishless cycle for a while before adding new fish. (should be several threads here on that)

Consider adding a duckweed tank as duckweed helps control ammonia levels as well as absorbs metals and other nasties out of the water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ravnis, i think i can rule out zinc poisoning, considering he had other fish in the same tank for quite a period of time with seemingly no problems, and the tilapia have been in there for a short period in comparison. also considering the amount of water changes hes says he´s done, i believe the zinc accumulation in the water and fish in such a short period of time would be very small.

1 gram per liter is as you say a maintenance dose or more explicitly as a preventative measure, is useless now as the fish have an obvious serious case of fungal infection .

Also i am surprised that you dont use salt, but can offer advice with its use. also surprised that you feel fungal infections just go away with no treatment needed, by increasing the temperature. Temperature increase to ideal tilapia levels also brings fungus into its ideal conditions, where it multiplies more quickly and can have a more devastating effect on fish, especially already infected fish.

Tilapia are one of the most salt resistant fresh water fish out there..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What makes me think it's way too much... several years experience with tilapia rearing now. I've had non sick tilapia handle that , but sick, stressed tilapia do like what helomech experienced, dead fish. A much lower osmotic pressure is better to attempt to recover dying tilapia. Plus the fact you have to take into consideration they could be suffering from zinc toxicity from the galvanized fitting. Salt is both good and bad. It increases zinc's toxicity in fish as zinc chloride is a lethal compound of zinc. I stand by my recommendation, but my advice is free and maybe you get what you pay for...

I had also transposed the gallons for pounds of salt and I had a figure that was ten times too high. So I made a mistake there, and apologize if it harmed anyone. Still 1 g/l is commonly used as a maintenance dose.

I don't use salt treatments as getting them in temps above 74 and they almost always recover on there own. After your system is running, you probably won't come across this problem again, except for maybe cold snaps. I see two main causes of death, suicide mostly by females being chased by males (a sight to see one jump 5 feet in the air trying to get away) and sickness after a sudden cold snap ( a greenhouse and your buried tank will help with this). Electric aquarium heaters work wonders too as previously pointed out.

In all reality the hidden bacterial infection was probably in your catfish fingerlings(not the first time I've seen this scenario on this board from a Texas supplier of catfish), combined with possibly some zinc poisoning stress from the galvanized fitting, plus stress on the biofilter from the load change, and the traveling stress combined to make a perfect storm. It's not your fault.

Corrective action items I can think of is:

100 % water change in main system if possible.

Fishless cycle for a while before adding new fish. (should be several threads here on that)

Consider adding a duckweed tank as duckweed helps control ammonia levels as well as absorbs metals and other nasties out of the water.

Thanks, my goal today is to get at least a temporary solar heater in place. See if I can save the last 13 fish. If these fish die, then I will try to run the tank without fish for a couple weeks like you say. I will be adding 3 more IBC's next to the main tank, one will be for duck weed thanks to your recomendation. I did change most of the water in the tank only had about a foot of water in the tank yesterday, and will be filling it up slowly with water heated by the sun. Draining the tank completely would be very hard, but I can drain it down to about 4 inches fairly easy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I also feel 100% water change is a bad plan. You are better doing multiple 50% changes in order not to further stress ill fish. regards

I had to drain the tank way down to catch the fish so a water change was necessary. But I am adding new water slowly. It may take me 3-4 days to fill the tank completely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I got a make shift solar heater rigged up and of course there was zero sunshine today. It is just a very long black hose with a 12volt DC bilge pump on it. It seems to flow good. Not expecting much from this, but any increase will be good. Going to make or find a old pool solar heater and put on the tank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...