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Pugo

Third world systems

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No, you are not alone... two things I found that seem to make a lot of sense to me one is Aquaponics and the other is raising quail. I plan to do both.. Helping and teaching others only improve the the market..:)

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Hi, everyone!

I have just joined the list, and I am very glad to see this discussion.

FYI I am basically a newbie regarding aquaponics/farming but I have become interested in the topic because of my volunteer work with the urban and rural poor in the country.

For now, all I can say is that I hope to learn a lot from you guys (and eventually contribute).

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We are more than willing to help you with in information you may need Pare.

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Pugo

Can quail be raised inobtrusively in a residential US neighborhood? I mean do the quail make a lot of noise, produced poop that draws lots of flies or have really bad smell? Is there good ways to control these things in my situation?

I would be interested in your PDF info.

Thanks

Kingjam

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Well, only the males make noise, if you are keeping just layers, the noise level is okay, and as far a smell they don't smell that bad, but you do need to clean everyday, for a couple reasons one the health of your birds, the other smell. easy way to deal with the waste dig a pit and use lime. No problem I can send you some just PM me your email address.

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Hi, everyone!

I have just joined the list, and I am very glad to see this discussion.

FYI I am basically a newbie regarding aquaponics/farming but I have become interested in the topic because of my volunteer work with the urban and rural poor in the country.

For now, all I can say is that I hope to learn a lot from you guys (and eventually contribute).

hey qommunity .. welcome to the board... theres already several pinoys here... Madodel is from pasig.. i think erwin is... QC ? .. im in Makati, and Pugo is bacolod, living in taiwan :) ..

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Pugo,

Very interesting topic you started here. You and so many of you are real Gurus on Aquaponics. Thank you all for enabling newcomers and "Virgin Aquaponics" like me to learn so much from your experience. Thank you for sharing all this valuable information.

My input on this topic may complement a little on some basics to keep in mind:

Recommendation:

Try to use ecological, locally available materials, such as sand/aggregate from river beds, palm trees, wood, bamboo, earth/dirt, recycled material etc.

Our activities in Panama include help to marginated communities and/or people in need. As a "Community Aquaponics project" it should be preferably organized through a community co-op with government and/or help from local institutions. Governments and/or institutions are more likely to listen when you present them with an "ecological sustainable project" from start to finish... Keep in mind that in some regions you may need an environmental impact study to setup such system. Then keep in mind that if something goes wrong the "builder" or "teacher" of the system may be finger pointed to be "the person at fault", not the operator/s who through neglect may have caused harm. So program some time to remain involved in the project even when finished.

Try to install a "non electrical system", this will avoid problems or failures with pumps, aerators which can have a devastating effect, ah yes, and no argument in a community who pays/contributes to the electrical bill: In our region this is rather simple because we have NO electricity available in our region. What we do have is plenty of water, and water is practically FREE here. We know the quality of the water is good and stable because we run a 3000 lime tree plantation using river water for irrigation during the dry season. So in our particular region we see such Aquaponic-project to work with good river and rain water flowing into one or a few fishpond/s and from there flowing into the growbeds, all by means of gravity. In such setup the fish pond/s will have a continuous input of fresh water. Fish Ponds may only have compacted soil (no liners). Blocks to build the growbeds could be locally made possibly using "stabilized adobe" blocks made from local earth/dirt. Then the use of bamboo for part of the construction is readily available (example as wall structures, posts, roofs etc.). Bamboo can be used for some of the piping setup too (save on PVC). This (bamboo) is an incredible material if properly harvested and cured. In our region it is readily available at no cost to us.

Example guadua bamboo weblink: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadua

Having this said the biggest investment in such setup here in Panama could be the greenhouse screening material. The system will need protection from the elements (heavy rain falls) insects/birds/predators. So "seran", the local name for the sunscreen material, sounds as a good option for an Aquaponics system in our region.

I am also in the assumption that all manpower requirements for such project would come from the local community on a voluntary basis.

"Third World System" in summary: Ecological Friendly and Sustainable from start to finish, at a bearable cost to install and operate.

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Thanks, Walter that was a wonderful post..helpful on many levels. But for sure I am no Guru on this subject. I would look to Kellenw or GaryD.. As they are Guru's I look too even Shane would be another person I would think is a Guru. ande is the link guy so I would call him the Link guru..:) me just a regular guy, just a little farther along than you are..Because of my back ground some concepts came very easy to me.

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Thanks, I guess this thread has not died yet :)

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Hi,

Aquaponics may not really be such a big opportunity for developing countries as we might think. The big inhibitors include the cost of equipment, the energy cost to run the systems and the dependence of some species on proprietary diets.

I actually think that recirculating aquaculture systems (or even greenwater culture) is more relevant to developing countries than aquaponics is......particularly since most developing nations have pretty adequate soil-based growing systems anyway.

The other thing is that many of these places (particularly the Asian countries) already have pretty well developed integrated farming systems and trying to switch them onto aquaponics is probably a bit like handing a pushbike to someone who is used to a Ferrari.

Gary

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Hello Gary, Pugo

This is my first time on the forum and this subject title caught my attention. I'm still on the learning curve but your experiences and ideas have hastened my education. I didn't want to comment until I had something reasonable to contribute as we all work towards finding food security solutions for varying degrees of resource scarcity.

In its most basic form AP seems to me to need sun, water and air. The movement of nutrient rich water around the system is the one area where work input is required. If we are searching for an off- grid solution powered by solar, say, then anything we can do to reduce the amount or frequency of work energy will make it more feasible for the rural farmer.

Pugo, your earlier comments were in search of a reliable, simple pump. Has anyone considered using an air driven diaphragm pump as the source of mechanical effort? The exhausted air can be re-used for aerating the FT and sump. Solar can store its energy during the day in a small CAES system and nighttime operation can be limited to just aeration, assuming enough bio media filtration in the FT or sump.

Solar compressed air storage systems seem to be receiving a lot of media attention these days, granted on a large scale, as an alternative to electrical energy storage. It would seem to me that once the compressed air is made and stored up in a tank that it could efficiently be used to meet the basic needs of a successful AP setup.

Diaphragm pumps come in all sizes and some are submersible, so you could get pumping and aeration simultaneously. Few moving parts and dead simple to maintain. The problem with simplifying the system and reducing appliances is that there's less redundancy and you get back to having a single source of failure. I suppose hand pumps could, in a pinch, be used to recharge the air tanks if there was a solar failure, but I thought CAES from a solar system might be worth looking at and may be an emerging trend that might find some application in rural AP systems.

Philip

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Your idea has merit.. I will look into this. Thanks. But like Gary said Aquaponics can't meet the needs of these people. Sure we can grow leafy greens and many vegetables. But the need is for staples like rice, wheat and corn in vast amounts is highly implausible with aquaponics. Even the concept of aquaculture is already be exploited to its max in the countries of Asia.

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Hi,

My comments shouldn't be taken to mean that we shouldn't try to come up with a low cost, low energy system for developing countries......so long as we don't get too fixed on our current view of aquaponics.

J. Sholto Douglas developed an hydroponics system for use in rural India during the 1950's - called the Bengal system. It was based on the use of local materials.....and it's possible that a low tech fish system could be developed to work in conjunction with that.

He wrote a book called Hydroponics - The Bengal System. It was published by the Oxford University Press. My copy, the 5th Edition, was published in 1975.

Gary

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I didn't mean I would not try but as of lately the fact has been pointed out to me that the real need is for staples. There isn't enough rice to go around there isn't enough wheat as well not enough corn. I have been play with the idea of combining fish ponds and rice fields, But that requires a lot of land. so there is no way I can test my theory. The big problem comes with the new rice hybrids they require much less water than before. But I digress sorry. So as far as Aquaponics goes yes it will help people provide for there tables. But it will need to remain as by family concept. Which leaves many people out. as they can't even afford the power to run a light bulb.

Asia is strange place. I can buy a chicken that has already been roasted for less than I can by a fresh one in the supermarket. The People need jobs but the governments are so corrupt every official is lining his pockets with whatever he can get his hands on and nothing is making down to the people that need it.

Take the new highway they are trying to build in Mindanao. Every official is taking a cut for his own pocket so the work is going very slow and not being done correctly and who is paying for this new highway the people of Australia as well as dumping millions into schools from what I hear but I have not seen anything change. The Philippines seems to be taking the Australian people for a ride.

What is Australia getting for all this mining rights. SO the once beautiful island will be nothing but a waste land. So who loses here the people do from both countries.

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Hi to all,

It has been mentioned that there staples are like rice, wheat, and corn. I agree but where I have been I am not sure there is a lack of this, but rather a lack of a better income to be able to purchase a larger variety for there diet. Maybe also a little short on the education side of knowing the benefits of having more vegetables in your diet. But the education dose little good if you can not afford it. If you can raise it your self this could help. If you have some to share with your neighbor this could help as well. And if you have some lift to sell that would be even better. It would not be good though for it to be a expense greater then the benefits. This is something we must avoid.

Wayne L.

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Hi Pugo,

I'm in a similar position to you with many poor African contacts that I want to introduce to AP.

As you say it is very important to make things cheaply and one key item is the pump. But do you really need a 'pump'?

There are very efficient manual water-lifting techniques that allow one man to lift 2 litres/sec wirh just a few very basic components. If the water is stored above the plants then it can be refilled every few hours!

I'm not talking about hand piston pumps which are needed to draw water from wells but not for just lifting it from a tank!

Graham K

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Hi Graham,

Welcome to APHQ.

Consider greenwater culture......where a tank is used to grow fish and the water is removed regularly to grow plants (in something like wicking beds).....and replenished with fresh water. That can be operated with no pump and is better suited to impoverished people.

Gary

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Hi

Whilst in Thailand last year, I visited Steve Bird near Buriram Thailand. He runs a small farm there. I was interested in his aquaponics system to see how it was working.

Steve grows Tilapia, his aquaponics system is set up where the grow beds are simply wicking beds. He does not use a pump but manually adds fish water to the wicking beds as required.

He also has another fish tank where he grows Tilapia. There is no filtration but he changes water as required.

I had my ideas about aquaponics and wanted to share them with family in Thailand, as fish is cheap there it needs to be cheap to produce. I believe the way Steve does it is the way to go.

Cheers

Joey

Good Earth Agriculture

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Pugo

a little of topic. Are you aware of SRI the system for rice intensification? It was developed in Madagascar by a priest. Basically you transplant the rice plants when they are 8 days old and some other things this leads to higher yields

The System of Rice Intensification

System of Rice Intensification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

www.future-agricultures.org/farmerfirst/files/T1c_Uphoff.pdf

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Hi Luke,

Interesting looking project.

Are you working for an aid agency or similar?

What volume of water do you expect to be able to move using the ram pump?

When you talk about "polluted river water", what are the pollutants?

Gary

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Hi Gary

No I operate as an independent, allows more freedom.

Only 180 litres an hour- might have to double up?

As the river passes through several rivers - e.coli would be the main problem. Risidue from cloth washing etc. so filtration is a must. Thinking rough filter, then sand then vegetative?

Regards Luke

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Hi Luke,

As the river passes through several rivers - e.coli would be the main problem. Risidue from cloth washing etc. so filtration is a must. Thinking rough filter, then sand then vegetative?

Sounds like a mini-wetlands. They are ideal for dealing with the level of pollution that you describe.

Gary

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