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R9X

Fish Wastes - Best use of - "Waste Bactrifier"

30 posts in this topic

In my studies, most systems setups or theories suggest "removing" solid fash waste or using it for fertilizer on soil-based plantings or composting.

From what I understand, boiled down, plants don't want fish waste, they want worm waste;

and worms don't want fish waste, they want the bacteria feeding on the fish waste.

Therefore, I would think that the fish waste solids, indirectly, are an important and integral, and in fact, key part of the system. (obviously in general, but still often discarded)

Personally, I would use some particular filter or chamber ("Waste Bacrifier"?) to keep recycling the fish waste and producing the bacteria that the worms want, with protein/particulate scrubbers/fractionators there and in one or more other parts of the system to remove fish wastes and reintroduce them back into the "Waste Bactrifier" to make the best use of the fish waste.

I have two questions:

#1: Why isn't this already a common key component of aquaponics systems? (Or have I missed something?)

#2: What would be the best filter/chamber for doing this?

- I know that especially in simple (media grow beds, etc) systems, that the fish waste incorporates into the growth media where worms feed on it, but I think there must be a more refined way to do things...

I have been toying around with a couple ideas, one being a two-stage perlite filter system, one one side acting as an anaerobic system, and on the other side, cycled with bubbler(s) for aerobic action, then through a Protein/Particulate scrubber/Fractionator to send the water to grow beds while keeping any solids which have gotten through the system back into the "Waste Bactrifier".

What I still van't keep straight in my head is: Should I first do anaerobic to feed the aerobic, or visa-versa???

Any thoughts/ideas on how nest to do this would be much appreciated...

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: Why isn't this already a common key component of aquaponics systems? (Or have I missed something?)

I think it is just easy to feed other plants with the waste, and there are many things that should be key components but seem to be absent in aquaponics.

: What would be the best filter/chamber for doing this?

may not be the best but I just use barrels but don't filter as I don't add it back.

Should I first do anaerobic to feed the aerobic, or visa-versa???

I think anaerobic first so you add oxygenated tea at the end.

plus i think perilite will clog your filter quick. try something more solid.

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RE: beelove: Thank you for the positive and helpful reply.

What I am considering doing is to remove, keep, and continueally recycle the fish waste solids to produce the bacteria and compounds that (A) worms feed on, and (B) can also be passed on to the plants.

I will be incorporating a worm bed somewhere between the fish tub/pool and the plants, and want the worm castings to be one of the main nutrients for the plants.

I use the term "filter" loosely, as a general category of equipment. Actually, I would condsider the perlite to be much of the "filter".

Your use of just a barrel would obviously work - but won't it accumulate solids at the bottom? - what do you do, if anything with/about it?

The purpose for the perlite in my sytem (aside from growth media) is the extreme amount of 'surface area' because of thier size and rough surface for the bacteria, and also because:

(A) One system is for a container to be filled with perlite, but, (B) Because perlite is so lightweight, I could also choose to only put a small amount of the perlite in the container, and through the action of a well placed bubbler or pump inflow (in, say, a conical clarifier or vortex operation) cause the perlite to cycle/move around in the container to help continually break up the solids.

I would then include one or more protein scrubbers to keep the solids out of the system flow, and recycling them/it.

I want the water to be as nutrient rich as possible, without passing on solid wastes (keeping the solid wastes for what they contribute to the system), and, (separate subject) to be as saturated as possible with CO2 and Oxygen for the plants.

Edited by R9X (see edit history)

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you're a pretty funny guy rx9.. "conditions of participation" ? i can't wait to see what you come up with next

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Wow, you have some ideas there.

I like your signature and terms of participation - can I steal them? lol...

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RE: Abacene: Sure, I'm making changes anyway, and am not sure if I am going to stick with this forum - no offense to this particular forum, it seems pretty professional, but I have come to hate most forums due to attitudes, forum trolls, etc. and think that maybe I just should not deal with forums.

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Hi R9X,

In my studies, most systems setups or theories suggest "removing" solid fash waste or using it for fertilizer on soil-based plantings or composting.

What you've discovered, from your brief membership on the BYAP forum, is that there are a whole heap of people who don't remove solids....but rather capture and process them in their media grow beds.

From what I understand, boiled down, plants don't want fish waste, they want worm waste.....

In fact, plants don't really want fish wastes or worm wastes......they actually use the inorganic elements that are contained in those wastes.

Personally, I would use some particular filter or chamber ("Waste Bacrifier"?) to keep recycling the fish waste and producing the bacteria that the worms want......

I don't know what a waste "bacrifier" is, but I do advocate the removal of wastes from the water column so that they can be safely processed before being added back into the system.

That enables you to make the best use of the solid wastes, without risking the health of your fish.

#1: Why isn't this already a common key component of aquaponics systems?

This may be because what you are proposing is more complicated than it needs to be.

#2: What would be the best filter/chamber for doing this?

I'd suggest that you use an aerobic digester to mineralise the wastes. The nutrient-rich water is then decanted and the remaining sludge is discarded (put under your trees or into your worm farm). You can then add some worm tea (if you wish) to the decanted nutrients before returning them to the system.

- I know that especially in simple (media grow beds, etc) systems, that the fish waste incorporates into the growth media where worms feed on it, but I think there must be a more refined way to do things...

This system works.....to a point. It is, however, limited in its productive capability and there is the ever present risk of fish deaths if things get out of "balance"....as they seem to do with monotonous regularity.

What I still van't keep straight in my head is: Should I first do anaerobic to feed the aerobic, or visa-versa???

The simplest approach is to use an aerobic digester in the way that I've suggested ......then you don't need an anaerobic anything.

Gary

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Hi Abacene/R9X,

I like your signature and terms of participation - can I steal them? lol...

While not wishing to appear abrasive, the APHQ management team determine the "Conditions of Participation" on APHQ......so it won't be necessary for either of you to go to the trouble of determining your own.

To that end, I've edited your signatures and profiles.

Gary

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Signatures not withstanding, worthwhile discussion.

So would adding the fish wastes to a 'manure tea' setup be a way to go?

Unless you had a really big fish load I could not imagine that fish wastes alone would be sufficient to make any volume of tea. But a good way to use the wastes as an addition to other sources.

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RE: GaryD - "While not wishing to appear abrasive" ???

No, it is actually much more like arrogance.

The statement is not about the forum rules, which are naturally determined by the sites administrator(s), it is about whether a person wants to participate themselves, which is entirely and exclusively their own choice.

Most of my purpose in coming to a forum is to check it out for others, which include professionals who do not want to waste their time on low-end forums where there are attitude problems; to put it to the test, so they can come to forums where they will not have to deal with such things themselves and can participate without apprehension. I really don't care for foums myself, I'm just working with friends.

There are people out there who are serious about this, know what they are doing, and are trying to improve on things beyond sawing plastic drums in half and crowding fish into cramped conditions without any regard for their well being. They want a minimum of respect, and a minimum of BS, which is entirely reasonable.

I will be passing this on to others.

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God dag R9X

Det er vansklig å svare på spørsmål 1. uten at du er mere spesifikk på arter, i makro øko systemet ditt.

spørsmål 2. er etter min mening enkelt tradisjonelt sedimenterings kammer med løft/skyll ala 2. genrasjon eric litt beroende på omløps/strømnings hastighet og totalvolum. samt type biomedie.

Tror neppe du kan forvente å bare få svar uten å ville dele annet en din basis kunskap som vi stort sett besitter alle mann.

Lykke til

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Hi R9X,

Please allow me to acquaint you with one of our forum rules. If you have a problem with any other member, or with the site administrators, you should use the PM system to deal with it.

Most of my purpose in coming to a forum is to check it out for others, which include professionals who do not want to waste their time on low-end forums where there are attitude problems; to put it to the test, so they can come to forums where they will not have to deal with such things themselves and can participate without apprehension. I really don't care for foums myself, I'm just working with friends.

There are people out there who are serious about this, know what they are doing, and are trying to improve on things beyond sawing plastic drums in half and crowding fish into cramped conditions without any regard for their well being.

If, indeed, this is you purpose, I respectfully suggest that you get on with it. You got off to a bad start on BYAP and you seem to have carried it over to APHQ. Since this thread is supposed to be about alternatives to "sawing plastic drums in half and crowding fish" let's get back to that.

Gary

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Alright, enough of this - now you are trying to make me out to be some dysfunctional bad guy for nothing more than standing up for my right to choose not to participate in a forum if thats what I decide to do, and for my conditions of participation which (A) were not in violation of the rules, and (B) are not only reasonable, but should be common courtesy in the first place.

- And herein lies the problem... most forums enable and even foster inconsidrate attitudes, and when someone stands up for themselves, the "moderators" or administrators either crack the whip or ban the person defending themselves or their post, while the inconsiderate people go right on with immunity, usually because they are the "Moderator's" favorites or online friends.

Basic consideration and basic courtesy should obviously be the standard, and if someone p_____ all over someone else's post, that person has every right to respond. GaryD - first you come off with arrogance, telling me whether I can choose to participate or not, when obviously nobody can force me to participate if I deem a forum hostile, amatiure or otherwise unworthy of further effort, then you go and change what I wrote in my biography, which is a further invasion of my "space" here, and then you try to rub my nose in it and bring up other forums I visited and found hostile and turn that back on me as well, publicly, to make me out to be some dysfunctional badguy.

May I point out that other than one brief excerpt, there has been no problem between other participants and myself - because what I have received in reply to my post has been considerate and helpful, with only one exception - YOU, GaryD, who just had to flex your muscles and start a p______ contest with me to show you are alpha dog or something.

I told you my purpose in testing forums to see if they are going to be hostile or otherwise undesireable, and in this case, the problem is not other participants, but your own attitude.

You want it dropped - well, you are the administrator starting the problem here, and continuing it; it has been fully within your ability not only to drop it, but to not have started it in the first place. If you want tolerance, you can start by being the example in the first place.

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- P.S.: I already "got on with it" as I said I was passing this on to others, which is my purpose, as I will be doing with this as well.

RE: ande: Why do you post something in a different language addressed to me when you have posted in english before?

If you post to my name, it is implied that you want me to read it, but very unlikely that I know your language.

- Do you normally translate it, and was just in a hurry and forgot to translate???

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R9X,

APHQ exists for the respectable exchange of information and networking with people who share a similar interest (aquaponics). It is provided to you FREE of charge by GaryD. Since Gary owns the site and pays to host it and maintain it, he gets to make the rules. That's how it works. So far, all you've done is complain about how you have been treated on forums in the past, and even to some degree, here. Yet, everyone has been quite nice to you as I look through this thread, particularly considering your fairly abrasive approach and less than friendly introduction. If you have a question, we welcome you to ask it. However, if someone doesn't answer it to your liking, you're going to have to deal with it. You aren't paying anyone here to do a service for you. They are taking time to try and help you on their own time, gratis, just to be nice. If you don't like the answers you receive, I would suggest clarifying or restating your question. Otherwise you are completely free to move along and find another site that better meets your standards and/or requirements. I fear you are quickly running out of options however, having already been banned from several. We will not tolerate trolling, flaming or just generally disrespectful behavior here. We're a friendly and tight knit community, and are very welcoming of new members as well. As long as you play within the rules, you'll find yourself welcome here.

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Sorry guys but admin and mods are being way to nice.

Im new to this site, i enjoy reading and learning all i can. ITs a free site and people are willing to take the time to give their opinons and info whenever asked.

Like all forums its a mater of wading through the poop taking what applies to you and moving on.

But unfortunatleey in this case i cant move on without having my say.

Richard

Admin Note: Your frustration is noted (and understood).....and R9X doesn't seem to be heeding the advice that he's received.....so he's now on moderation where nothing that he says will make it through to the forum without the Moderators getting to see it first.

With respect, that part of your post that is inconsistent with our rules, has been edited.

Edited by GaryD
Part of post inconsistent with forum rules. (see edit history)

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- P.S.: I already "got on with it" as I said I was passing this on to others, which is my purpose, as I will be doing with this as well.

RE: ande: Why do you post something in a different language addressed to me when you have posted in english before?

If you post to my name, it is implied that you want me to read it, but very unlikely that I know your language.

- Do you normally translate it, and was just in a hurry and forgot to translate???

No, I never translate it, it would allmost allways ends up as nonsens, that dosn't make any scence.

I have never encountered such narrow rules of engagement(put by you)

So to answer at all within these, I had to do it in my own language or simply not try to be helpful?

I thaught your 2xQs in post#1, was your purpose or where you got stuck in your science/knoledge on the matter Re: Fish Wastes - Best use of - "Waste Bactrifier" .

I carefully read ewery thing you posted here, and on some other forums as well, and all your conditions put, for me/others to respond in acordance.

So I took a chanse that maybe you where holding the academic skills, to understand the answer, I put forward to be helpfull.

I was wrong sorry, no harm or disrespect intended.

Maybe you can get it translated, in your inner circle ?

A friendly advice in your search for "the answer" expand your horizon, and don't limit your options by thinking/beliving that filtering out the wastes is the only right aproach, to aclompish your tasks.

A lot would say why don't you reduce the fish waste by reducing the stock? so there is no exces waste to remove/filter.

Or is it so that you have or hold the final solution to the living machine except for these 2 "minor" Qs adressed,so you need to search outside your normal circle/forum (comunity) for this last, and final pice of the pusle?

-P.S.: I informed admin in a PM why I had to answer in differente language, and its adressing your Qs polite/respectfull

Good luck on your search, please share more iff you stay arround.

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Hi,

Notwithstanding RX9's sudden departure (and while I've never heard of a "bactrifier"), the notion of a digester that is capable of recovering nutrients from a variety of sources is probably a useful one.

As micro-farmers, we should be looking to recover prospective nutrients from everything we can......from fish solids, fish processing wastes, micro-livestock manure, worm castings, plant residues, chicken/quail/duck guts and feathers, etc.

No single process (that I know of) is capable of processing all of the above......so a multi-stage approach is required. In the end, however, the easiest way to handle nutrients is in liquid form.

Gary

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Anaerobic digestion now this is a cool idea, we can power are cars from fish poop.. Because the final process includes, methanogens which converts fish poop to methane and carbon dioxide.. Gary I don't envy you guys when people like RX9 show up... Sorry about methane joke

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Hi Pugo,

The membership of APHQ is generally well-behaved......and the forum is well-managed.

Every now and then, our management gets tested......and R9X was such a test.

Gary

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