WillroyGreenhand

2020 the year for above 10000 square meter on Auntie's Land

8 posts in this topic

Hello,

we are planning after more than 5 years of trials, ups and downs, lessons learned , buffalo stomping through the greenhouse and developing a taste bud for red claw crayfish plus investing above 20.000 USD for the trial system (was well worth it, just to mention we had made a commercial system without this)  to go commercial building a 10000 sqm greenhouse incl 12000 sqm outside area.

Still there have been a few things answered by doing, but still the "i believe that is the right thing to do" is covered in doubts like "why nobody did this before.

First I think you want to see pictures?

here you go:

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That was early 2015, I tried to explain my wife and her family whats all about modern farming. Lots of laughing, not believing faces and the Palm Tree !!! NO WAY that thing should be cut off !!        So I had to engineer (I am one with a hydroponic farming history in the Netherlands) my pipes around that bloody tree... 2 Buckets with Red Claw Crayfish were waiting that the water get filtered. Hence, wrong start at all. 

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middle 2015 a lightning struck that bloody Palm tree and killed it instantly.. The first redesign was made because the static around the palm tree was just always going out of shape.. Here we end up with almost not controllable values, was it ammonium or nitrate, ph level and algae growth and clogged filters, pipes, pumps and and and.. name it we been there.

27744896_1600049420113038_1375954802_o.jpg 

end 2015 til mid 2016. My wife and her Auntie became addicted and Google is also in Thailand a good thing to burn money when you have Aquaponics questions. Both challenged me to make this and that In total 4 Upgrades: Ebb flood grow beds, a 4 filter system, grow up buckets, 2 more fish tanks as the crayfish population started to increase drastically. Meanwhile I started to let the Crays join our monthly BBQ Party and also Salad and Co were growing as mad. So beside my wife and her Auntie also some Nephews and Nieces joined that game and Google brought in more suggestions.

 35480761_1738673329583979_192891959130456064_n.jpg 

End 2016: The crayfish made not enough dirt to get all plants fed and they were so lonely on the BBQ. We needed Tilapia to add more variety on the Grill. IBC Cubes for 20$ a go were just the most budget friendly investment since a long time.

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2017 Thailands sun is a killer and so the shading roofs had to be implemented for a better harvest and because of the fact that Chilies and Tomatoes are a main dish in Thailand which kept hopping out of the pipes and ebb flow beds filled with clay pellets, a Dutch bucket system had to be built.

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Done end of 2017: Just to find out that....

 received_1607743082677005.jpg

Black tomatoes are only on the seed pack black... 

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But the crayfish did well and a set of 20 aquariums had to be built and because the backyard was stuffed my office desk had to be moved and a part of the living room became a Sea-world.

Last Picture: Where to go with all the poo? We tried our Bananas and a Vine called in Thailand Chicken Flower. Bang on. People looking for Lucky Lottery Numbers in the HUGE Banana Trees and wedding couples making Photos under the Flowers for good luck.. 

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Enough is enough: Auntie showed us her land and after we realized she has a huge plot that plan continues: The Commercial System is now a daily part of my engineering tasks when bad weather days keep me off my real job. That will be 2020 the target. 

C.H.O.P_AP System Modified Last Stand 35m grow beds incl suggestions for outside plus calulations.png

100m x 80m greenhouse and also a copious outside grow area with all the family loves to have.. Bangkok is close and there is a good market for BIO products. 

Now my first question built on an experience we made by accident:   The Red Claw Crays are everywhere and for the commercial System we want to raise them beside Tilapia right into the grow beds. The reason is we had some rafts floating in the fish tanks and against our fear they will rampage the roots of the plants they did well as free labor. They maintained the roots by clipping out every rotten piece and stimulated the growth of any plant. 

So why nobody ever tried to grow the Red Claws directly in the deep water grow beds? It will be a cheap labor, more harvest of Crays and bigger sizes as well.

The poo has to be removed to avoid root rot. This will be the next step in our Trial System: First we scrap the Pipes as they are just trouble makers prone to clog and when we have a power cut the plants get "sad"  with hanging leaves in minutes. The pipes will be exchanged by grow beds (with crayfish under the rafts) and in the center of the sloped grow bed we will make a pipe with holes to suck form time to time the poo (and small fry) off. 

Calculation 5mm hole spacing for solits removal.png 

 

I am looking forward for comments: bad or good all are helpful.

 

Cheers all for reading..

Willroy

 

 

Edited by WillroyGreenhand
typo (see edit history)

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Hi Willroy,

Sorry for my delayed reply.

I am really loving what you have done, and are planning to do.

I do however apologise that I can not get a more detailed reply and some questions to you for a couple of days.

Cheers
Toga

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Hi Willroy,

I am looking specifically at your layout plan, and reading your verbal plans... and I am having some confusions.

I do not exactly comprehend -

a) What each different size grow area is designed for, so many areas and sizes ?

b) Which areas for the Tilapia ?

c) Which areas for the Red Claws ?

d) I do not see a water flow diagram - Inlets / outlets / sumps / pumps ?

e) I do not see any filtration ?

d) Do you plan additional aeration ?

I hope you are still in the 'pencil on paper' planning stage.
I am sure to have more questions when I have a clearer understanding of your layout plans.
At that point in time, I/we/APN members/APN staff, would be able to offer many more specific comments / feedback.

Each of these questions, and answers has big implications to design, layout and easy operation.
Examples are:
A) Different sizes and types of media growbeds, DWRaft, fish areas, crayfish areas... each have a different internal shape / profile for best recommended performance / results.
B & C) For best results, each species has slightly different preferred habitat requirements for different stages of growth. Breeding, fry rearing, fingerling grow out... and even purging, in regard to tank size / shape / profile.

100mx80m greenhouse is an expensive exercise... doing something/s wrong and having to re-do them is +4x as expensive.

Cheers
Toga

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Interesting, and aggressive, concept.  Something else to think about ...... since you seem open to combining different AP styles into one system, why not give sandbeds/iAVs style some consideration for your filtering needs.  Get your water filtered and additional growing areas at the same time, and a lot less time wasted mucking around with whatever you have to do to clean the fish tanks.

The iAVs method operates quite a bit different than most aquaponic methods and would require it's own dedicated pump, timer, supply and return drain lines, but looking at the scale of the operation you envision, and the filtering requirements, iAVs  just might be something to consider.

Ravnis likes this

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Yes mate, its still another 2 years to go and we are by now in a medium paper and pencil stage for the planning.

Also my family needs to get off their rice farmers thinking and we are due to modify our test system.

We also have modified our drawing after did a visit to a same size farms in Indonesia and Malaysia.

From the fish tanks the first filter will be a 4m x 2.5m, 50micron drum filter. The amount of solids is about 80Kg per day hence a side market for bio fertilizer.

from the drum filter it goes to the sump and from there to the 25 x 5 cbm gravel beds.. The guy in Indonesia did some smart designs to assure that the gravel beds this size will run off proper. Also we have dropped the idea with one pump as a beast that size is hard to control, we use them offshore for jetting things into the ground. 12 small pumps will use less energy and each grow bed can be individually switched off. 

From the gravel beds we use gravity to get through the deep water grow beds. 

You are right, the piping is pretty huge but we split them into a suitable size. 5x 150 mm from the grow beds to the fish tanks.

the outside grow beds are doubled now, hence instead of 12 they are 6 of 8 x 57m (they will only be for Duckweed production and Crayfish below) We also have the plans to put red claws into the deepwater beds as they do an outstanding job maintaining the roots. We experienced that the salads grow much better and faster when the black roots are clipped out.

But still this is a test stage and we will see which plants they will may be eat in whole.. 

Last stand design 10-2018.png

Here a quick made shematic how we see our plumping.. The originals are in the Netherlands for check and too big to attach all..

Just don't mind the one pump and air blower beside the drum filter. There will be about 6-12 in each system.

 

Plumbing complete Last stand design 10-2018.png

 

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Would't an iAV taking too much space and as far I can see the amount of solids we produce will be better caught out by using a pure mechanical Filter like a self driven drum filter like our friends in Malayisa do?

 

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Hi Toga,

 

cheers for you time here the answers of your questions.

Hi Willroy,

I am looking specifically at your layout plan, and reading your verbal plans... and I am having some confusions.

I do not exactly comprehend -

a) What each different size grow area is designed for, so many areas and sizes ? 

12 Gravel beds 5.2m x 2m x 70cm. We have developed an idea to get the inertia better under control so even a big size grow bed will empty complete before the suction in the bell siphon breaks off. As 2nd effect it will pull the dust to the bell siphon and keeps the grow bed longer active. Murray H. had some issue with that. 

Deepwater Grow beds: 50m x 15m x 80cm deep because there will be Red Claw Crayfish under the floating rafts. As I said they have never damaged any plants since we introduced the idea in our test system. We experienced a faster and better grow especially for mustard, water spinach and lettuces.  

b) Which areas for the Tilapia ?

The Octagon tanks have each 50 cbm water is for tilapia

c) Which areas for the Red Claws ?

The outside 57 x 8 x 0.8m deepwater growdeds with duckweed will also used for red Claw Craysfish. And if we have cleared all doubts we also will have Red Claws inside under the floating rafts.

d) I do not see a water flow diagram - Inlets / outlets / sumps / pumps ?

Diagrams are by an engineer in the Netherlands because we thought already big but somehow it seems we still didn't think big enough ;-) he will sort that. Also he get the one pump idea out of our mind and made it min 6 and max 12 pumps. safes half of the calculated energy. Big is obviously not always efficient.. 

e) I do not see any filtration ?

Filtration: The heart piece is a 4 x 2.5 m 50 micron self rotating drum filter. But also that is in planning and awaiting approval from holland. 80- 100 kg Poop per day is a number that could create an side market nicely packed in 5 Kg boxes.. (the Lad in Indonesia sells all to Parks and gardens in Jakarta)

d) Do you plan additional aeration ?

After the water left the ebb flood grow beds all deep water grow beds, fish tanks, sumps will be aerated by using blower and also a special system for the duckweed tanks has been developed to give the crays oxygen but doesn't disturb the on water movements sensible Duckweed, which has a potential market here in Thailand but more will be used to split the expenses for fish food to over a half.. 

I have to say thanks you for any question you have and doubt you raise..

Also Aufin's suggestions are much appreciated, here in the forum we can sort things that might lead into a disaster if overlooked or ignored.. I am happy that a few are interested and bring up some good points..  

Edited by WillroyGreenhand (see edit history)

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I have made some updated drawing after a previous meeting with my Companion. I had to get the one Pump idea cleared.

I apologize that the Trap Housings for the harvest, and how how contain the Red Claw Crayfish fry I am not posting here.

It took 5 years to develop these until 95% catch rate and success for breeding/feeding in tanks for marketable sizes.

The size of the grow beds was one issue, the food a another one and how the get them harvested when there are 1300 Floating rafts full of Greens above them was a biggest question. You grow one size and can make a $$ but If you have no control as you can't reach them, then the stock goes low in a few month, here the mechanics are asked and that is well done from Holland and a Crayfish farmer here in Thailand, my nephew ;-).. 

All this was about 20000 EUR of literally building and destroying work, sweat and tears. 

Last stand design 10-2018 1.png

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