Damon

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About Damon

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  • Birthday 09/26/86

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  • Biography
    Young body, old mind
  • Interests
    Disc golf, consulting

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    ohio
  1. I agree that teaching the world your secret trade is like tying your own noose in the business arena, but in Tim and Susanne's case that's their point. I was just curious as to the man's actual profitibility and his margins. If he in fact shows a decent profit margin, all it would take is more of the same outcomes in different locations to prove profitibility across the board. We've all agreed in the past that ap is location specific, the same goes for many businesses, which is why a savy business person runs a demographic and cost benefit before investing, but that's just part of the game. But, if you could show a decent profit margin within a set of perameters then you could say that he's proven the business model. If people choose to invest going against the grain of said business model, classes and seminars not included in the profit margins, then it's their own bad business sense.
  2. And as for the roi, I believe some time back one of Tim and Susanne students provided something to the tune of his first years numbers... I'm sure someone here can dig that up. Haven't looked into it to see how he did, but I do believe that one of the fan news letters had a subject line that had to do with production values.
  3. The cost of automation, if a system is set up properly can be manageable... a $100,000 swing arm robotic on a boat lift system seems expensive... but so does the tractor combine an multiple trailer systems that cost a quarter million dollars or more... Then, if the uvi numbers hold up... or come any where close... you have the land tax offset in your advantage. Less acorage for the same output mean less land taxes to be paid... On a related topic, California is in the middle of a very serious drought... the worst one ever, or close to it... at this point, conventional farming in this region seems a bit irresponsible considering that ap would be a viable alternative considering the water saving feature and the lack of a purging cycle that hydroponics has.... Sorry, since this thread ramped back up earlier this week my email inbox has been exploding... just wanted to put in some counter argument. Cheers.
  4. yes gary, but mutation and genetic variance come in the passing of successful generations... the more generations that pass, the faster and more drastic the species can change... it's a numbers game... although it is possible, mainly because the laws of statistics and probability say so, that i can change into some thing more effective as a survivor and killer, the chances are slim for Ebola... the strains don't really survive long enough for genetic variance to find adequate successors... which is why humanity has been getting better at raising the survival rate with each outbreak... it doesn't change much because it doesn't survive long... now, i'd be willing to be we get a super effective pandemic level flu virus mutation before Ebola. the flu is a survivor and can change quickly. in the cold winter here a family locked up indoors can pass "the same" flu bug back and forth for weeks... highly contagious, air born, and it replicates and passes to the next person quickly. it can be passed along before symptoms start and the symptoms ebb and flow making one think the worst is over while they still carry the bug... when i was in high school they had to use a calamity day, normally reserved for bad weather, because over a third of the students were out of school sick. the only thing the flu is missing is a higher lethality rating... if it had that, if the flu became hemorrhagic, we'd be in a real hurt. the flu has to change 1 aspect and it'd be the worst thing we'd have ever encountered as a human species. Ebola would have to change incubation time, mode of transportation( from contact to air born) which there's illnesses that have been around for centuries that have yet to accomplish that feat, ease up on the symptoms to because more incognito and also not kill it's host in 3 weeks, effectively asking the virus to get a bit lazy on that last one... so the idea of Ebola mutating into something more awful than in already is... there's bigger things to worry about... like letting humanities stupidity help this thing along... a friend of mine posted an article on facebook about a hospital gearing up and getting ready to receive a supposed Ebola victim... like i've said before, Ebola has been stuck in it's corner of the globe for decades now... and here we are helping this awful and deadly force overcome one of it's faults... to whom ever it is with the disease, im sorry, but they should consider falling on the sword and taking one for the team here... the hospital is in a highly populated area and a major city... Atlanta Georgia to be exact. to help this thing jump the ocean is just moronic... i know it's in human nature to feel compassion, especially in the face of something so gruesome... but the interest of self preservation is a larger part of our humanity... if Ebola does become the pandemic that everyone is so worried about it's not going to happen by chance or accident. it's going to happen because people are going to knowingly and arrogantly ignore all of the warning bells and sirens of a bad idea... i for one, and again i going to apologize to whom ever is infected and seeking treatment in the USA, i for one say leave that awful mess where it's at and not invite it on a world tour.
  5. Live virus does exist in the united states in a few labs. And accidental exposure has happened... it really is a scary thing.
  6. it's the fever and the dehydration due to vomiting and diarrhea the gets people. mainly small children. at 107F proteins break down... the brain cooks causing seizures and strokes, organs fail... etc... hi fever mixed with dehydration... it just get more complicated... 21 days before symptoms does sound like a long time... but, by the time a person reaches the contagious stages of the hemorrhagic fever their body is pretty much falling apart... which keeps them from being all that mobil... thank christ for that.... your body quite literally breaks down while you're still alive... you bleed from everywhere, hence "hemorrhagic." your blood turns black with virus. your skin come loose from the connecting fascia. you intestinal lining and stomach lining do the same.. i tried to avoid the grim details in the above posts of what happens to the human body and just tried to use vague statements as to how bad things get for the infected... but to assume that you're going to be up and moving while infected is just not going to happen for very long... the first signs are a debilitating headache... sets in a day or two after contact... i dont know about you, but the words debilitating head ache seems to warrant missing work... thus meaning a sort of self quarantine... then after 3-5 days of things getting worse but still bearable, most people end up going to the hospital and at this point still stand a solid chance of survival... well... not really... it's 50/50... best case... if the person hasnt hit the hspital by this point, a few days later they will begin to aspirate blood and if cut wont stop bleeding... if that doesnt send them into the hospital yet, bleeds from every opening such a rectal, oral, fingernails, eyes nose and ears will probably do the trick... but by this point it's way past too late... the only thing left the the crashing and bleeding out... total system and structural failure... another thing to help calm your fears... it took only a few years for small pox to wipe out a giant chunk of the indian population across the better part of the united states... it traveled the length of the eastern seas board and a few hundred miles inland in just a few years... it's taken Ebola decades to travel 300-400 miles from it's first recorded case. planes, trains and automobiles have existed since the first recorded cases of ebola and yet it's slowly crawling across the land... smallpox was an epidemic back when peoples' main mode of transportation was the heel toe express. (walking) this "ebola scare" will come and go just like the last dozen have... Ebola Zaire killed between 97.5%-99% (depending on the scientific journal) of the hosts it infected... and little was ever printed... now the survival rate is a 50/50 shot with the CDC and WHO recording every health care provider and really every other person trying to enter the united states from anywhere close to the hot zone and all of a sudden now with all of these security measures and medications and quarantine standard operating procedures we think there's going to be a pandemic? a pandemic by accident no less? not likely... i'm always up for a good fear inducing conspiracy theory, but this on isn't it... too much going against it... now if russia found a way to weaponize it and shot infected missiles into africa... now that would be a story i could see getting scary fast... if a massive ebola outbreak occurred anywhere other than withing spitting distance from where it originated... then i'd be a bit more concerned...
  7. Unchecked high fevers, dehydration, and seasures can result in cases of the flu when untreated. Then you have all of the relates illnesses infecting the host of a compromised immune system. Happens more often than you'd think when a simple doctors visit costs more than a house payment. Ebola is a rare virus considering everything. 1200 people sounds like a large number... especially when paired up with most peoples mentality of how Africa is... but the sad reality is its barely a fraction of a percent of the population... hardly pandemic. The tracking of the disease is fairly simple. .most of the people traveling into that desolate hole of warfare and famine are WHO employees or other health care operatives... the local community and most of the primary infected would be too poor to travel. That's why Ebola has been a lo all problem of west Africa for decades... yes, decades, and it took the better part of those decades to reach the neighboring boarders of its origination... decades....
  8. that's my point friend, the virus doesn't spread too quickly... it's main mode of transportation is contact. so unless an infected person aspirates in the general vicinity of others, the only other way to really get it is contact... which is why generally, it passes from the infected to their immediate family, and then from there to the care giver where it's diagnosed early and treated... well, early for the care giver, not so much the poor soul that walked in sick... this is literally how the united states citizen (a bit of a stretch) died.. he went to take care of a sick family memeber not realizing that i was Ebola, and contracted it from her... the media has put their spin on it calling him a united states citizen, but he's a naturalized citizen... not really a real deal... but not to down play a human life here, but the media also made the initial claim of 90% mortality rates and inside the same sentence said that due to detection this strains mortality rate is around 60%, a pretty grim prognosis, but a far cry from the devastation that Ebola Zaire brought.... the virus simply burns through it's victims too fast to be a long lasting problem... the transmission, like is aid above, is generally by contact with the infected or their fluids, and by the time the infected reaches the point of maximum contagiousness the body collapses from dehydrations and cracks at every orifice and bleeds out... as long as people are cautious in this stage, the chances of further contamination are minimal... it's a shock and awe campaign... yes, Ebola is a very nasty virus with effects that are even more so... but since the virus was discovered more people have been killed by the common cold than by Ebola.
  9. ehhh.... well.... partially correct... i love Ebola... it sounds morbid, but follow me here. since i was a kid i've loved nature and science... i do hunt, and it's in that respect that i do admire Ebola. my desktop background is actually the Ebola Zaire shepherds crook virus... that virus is natures most effective hunter to date. closest to a perfect score when it comes to the hunter / kill rate... with that being said, only a few strains to date have had a mortality rate over 90%. granted, the rest of the strains have been for the most part above the 50% margin, the media clings very tightly to the Zaire's mortality rate... the problem with Ebola is it burns through it's victims fairly quickly, and by the time the victim is in their most contagious state, they are normally quarantined... also, signs begin to show fairly early on... with those factors combined, controlling the disease's spread, even on our globally traveling scale, wont be difficult... since Ebola is a heavy hitter the CDC will set up shop and test everyone it can when ever a case is reported... the main problem is the virus's rate of burn... it's just not around long enough for an effective spread... and since the signs of the afflicted basically look like walking death making those people the type you'd avoid normally on the street, the spread of the virus is pretty ineffective... which is why the flair ups are measured in dozens and not millions... it's generally spread from the afflicted to their immediate family then to their care givers and done... empathetically is truly is a horrifying thing. what the virus does the host is a very horrifying and stomach turning to say the least. to quell the mind of the conspiracy theorists... if it was to be weaponized, we wouldn't know about it until it was too late... the fact that we heard about it before the numbers of infected hit the thousands is the first sign that this is just a normal Ebola flair up... as odd as that is to say... this virus does tend to rear it's head from time to time and it's just different enough from its predecessor that it's basically a new kind of steam roller with the same effects... so, horrifying? absolutely... blood clotting in your organs while you still alive with the cracking and bleeding out finally... deadly? oh gosh yes, but the mortality rate isn't as high as the "free media" would have you believe... hasn't been that high in decades really... could it be the next pandemic? probably not... the virus's tenacity and effectiveness is it's own worst enemy. like i sated above, the fire of the virus burns too fierce and it's not exactly sneaky when it comes to hiding in it's host... you can't beat nature, but thankfully, sometimes nature beats itself.
  10. tim is tim is tim. he really is a good man. cried when i hugged him and left his farm. said some pretty nasty things that day and he still called me a brother. love the guy. when it comes to the friendly aquaponics classes, transparency is the key to the kingdom, even if it's not going to help the blind see. having been caught in the past by skewed or weighted numbers, keeping things as honest as possible is the way of the realm with them. honestly it could have just been bad timing as well. their family has been dealing with a personal issue for the last few years now, and it's really taken a toll on them personally and professionally. but the good news is by this time next year it will finally be over. the stress from this issue is what lead to our break down. one giant step they took, coming from their latest news letter is the tearing down of their internship program. they turned the reigns over to the man across the island. helped build zac's tanks and give him the run down of the day to day work of ap, and if his system has grown as reported, it should be a sight to see.
  11. would be interesting to see how spatial management techniques for the crops of leafy greens would play with the production numbers and profit margins. also things to look into to further that presentation would be value added options with cost / benefit of each option. looking specifically into crops that require the farmer to buy seed stock as opposed to farms that have found a market for things that can be cut and regrown / self propagate (green onions, garlic). and focus on the fact that harmful pesticides cannot be used in aquaponics, which would also be used as a marketing base since not all organic farmers are honest as CNN reported a year or so ago.
  12. Really what fall did was take what the uvi system had and regeared it to suit a different purpose. Not only that but they engineered a way to build the systems to be just as structurally sound as the uvi systems but end up costing far less to construct. Also with their systems they took different steps to manage the solids waste in the system. Instead of mechanical filtration they ended up having gammarus in their system to mineralize and further process the solids. In doing so they had to play god a bit and manage a population control, which really managed itself with regular harvesting, but adding variables such as living creatures to your system is adding an unknown that might not always work in your favor. Also, with the dwc systems you will mosquito problems unless you take steps to prevent it... its an open water source... eggs will be laid. On the friendly farm the use in mosquito fish keep the pests at bay to almost the point of nonexistent. There was a time there were mosquitoes really bad on their farm.... hut that was because we had drained a system to thoroughly clean it and to catch the remaining prawn and forgot to introduce new mosquito fish to the freshly refilled system... that was a bad time.... took a few days of biting misery to figure out what had happened... again, when dealing with a living variable eithing the system you always stand the chance of dealing with an unknown negative outcome... we found that once the mosquito fish population got too large for its food source the fish would turn to the plant roots for sustenance... so again we were back to population control... this time it was a bit more hands on... we built a frame that would fit into the troughs and put it on wheels. We fit a net to it which was fine enough to catch the larger mosquito fish but still allow the tiny ones to stay in the system. Boy did the farm cats eat good on those days. Heir system is more than just the cut and paste with one minor change that most would have you believe. They've always geared their farm to be the most efficient produce producing system instead of aiming for fish and in doing so have unknowing scraped the surface of understanding the balance between the lower fish stocking density and passive feeding methods. Granted them banking only on passive feeding wouldn't work for them completely because even in Hawaii the winter there was pretty rough for tropical standards... rainy and cool and cloudy.... I remember getting there in January and felt let down by the weather... I actually told Susanne that I thought the tropics would have been more tropical. Haha. Its not that they don't have a solids filtering component in their system, its just a different type of filtering process... one, that even with its minor bumps, has proven to work for years now. And some may cry about the resulting sediments, because after all anything can only be processed so much before its all out of goodness and you're left with a silt... well, In the troughs you're always going to have somehting in the bottoms... usually the potting mix that just sits there at the bottom... but in their systems the gammarus turned that normally wasted resource into a food source... yes there was silt, and it was realm of hand fulls.... in a system with 12 80ft troughs.... hand fulls is near nothing and was removed with ultra fine fish nets... the kind you catch gold fish with In the pet store
  13. your chemical nutrient vs. aquaponics cost assessment is valid, but only under the recommended and and given guide lines for systems that exist, but you all still ignore the value in the system i've time and time again provided. as a 1-1 comparison, yes it wouldn't make sense based on your numbers. now take the friendly aquaponics' 3rd system, as system that has been not only alive and well, but thriving under 3 different trough set up types (the whole system itself is just one experiment after another really) that have crashed through the proposed limits of stocking densities to trough area ratios. so take what you can get from fish food alone under the current guidelines and then multiply the out put by 3. that's what the friendly aquaponics 3rd systems proves has been working. the naturalistic eco system with it's biofilm and biodiversity of the system helps the system feed itself. now i do realize that a system such as this probably wouldn't work indoors, but having given an example that conveniently gets ignored is a bit frustrating at this point. yes, these types of systems would be location restrictive to the warmers regions, but that's just good business sense anyways. i do agree that indoor operations will probably never get off the ground, but if you're going into a business you're looking at eliminating cost factors in the first place, so an outdoor operation would only make the most sense to start with not only in initial start up costs but in perpetual heating and cooling as well. now if the weather changes are less drastic then i could see it working indoors. not to get all earthy on this topic, but an aquaponics system, a healthy and stable system, is an eco system with thousands of square meters of biofilm and microbes putting ammonia into the system as well as the fish stock. these life cycles within the system, starting with the vegetative and working it's way up to the predator levels, on a microscopic scale, are perpetuated within the system as long as it stays healthy and balanced. but even at a microscopic scale, the shear weight in biomass is enough to offset the expansion of the system will still maintaining the base fish stock.
  14. ... didn't realize much skill was needed to harvest product... seemed like a ton of cutting and finger dip planting while i was doing it... of course you'll need a few well trained people to keep records, administer the feeding and general over seeing of the facility, if you don't plan on being there yourself, which im guessing by the amount of skilled labor your calling for you don't. but the largest part of the food production process, if you're producing produce and not concentraiting on the fish, is the harvest itself. the harvests comprised nearly 60% of the labor costs. replanting days took up around 30% and the general overseeing is the lath 10% two harvest a week, two replants a week and 3 days of just feeding the fish, which took maybe 10 minutes, recording the D.O. and pH levels, which took 2 people a little over an hour... there really wasn't much need to "skilled" labor every day other than the feeding and level testing... christ, most of our labor costs, the 90%, went to 16 year old kids whose only ties to the farm were they were friends of the owner's oldest son... so your cry for skilled labor is only going so far for these weathered ears... and really, in all reality, when in the 2nd and 3rd worlds, where most people tend their own gardens, i think they'd be able to handle it. and to get a person to care about their job, pay them enough to do so... which even paying someone more than the average 3rd worlder, is still less than you'd pay the people you're selling the produce to... like i said murky morality... i wouldn't recommend banking on the fish production, as i never have, but in a lower density system with a high enough water turn over rate it seemed to work pretty well for the people on the friendly farm. to date they havent had an issue doing this yet. of course if you're only planning on dropping air stones in your frsrt tank i can see where you might take issue, but at the rate of water flow used on the friendly farm, again little to no issue. with the largest of the fish the furthest down the line, the middle sized and small fish, the ones with the freshest water, were the most commonly lost fish, not the adults with the 4th time used water as you explain... strange phenomenon. also, with that, sustainable was not the word i used when describing my proposed idea. having seen that the lower density systems only produce so many fish per grow out period, "seasonal" would be the best word to use. if one could manage to purge their stock when their small number of fish were out of season they could stand to make a bit more money... ish... depending on local demand. the number of fish depends on the size of the farm, that's just math... having seen the limits of a system pushed to 3 times the limits of the recommended restrictions when it comes to grow out area to fish stock, i still think there's much to learn about what's all going on within a "STABLE" (believe me, this much emphasis on "stable has always been necessary) system. again, i wouldn't recommend people spending thousands of dollars based only on what's happened on one farm that no one has wanted to look into, but it's worth a gander. friendly aquaponics system 3a, 3b, and 3c. 3, being the tank and the letters being sets of troughs... google earth will let you see it on the end of the farm furthest from the house... so really, until someone finds a definite limit on system size and structure, having tested all of the variables that seem to work best for everyone, and not just the ones speaking, i refuse to believe that ap isn't meant for produce production instead of fish filtration... the sad thing is the base for the numbers that the friendly aquaponics people are using are skewed because, according to their largest system, their other 2 are grossly underperforming in the produce production department... which really goes against everything most people say is supposed to be happening... so based on what's working for their largest system, tack on 30-40% more produce production to their revenue stream at the same cost of operation... it would have helped their profit margins... but alas, their farm land was restrictive as it's elevation from the top of the farm and the bottom of the farm changes drastically... i guess i forgot to mention, for the new guys' sake, that i've seen what a low density system is capable of, massive fish production isn't part of it, which is why my statement only focused smally on that part. having given a reference to the use of micro greens in my local community and how a farm is already producing the micro greens already, using aquaponics with this system would be beneficial. but since we took a simple question of "what you you do if" and turned it into a technical discussion, i guess we have to travel that road too. using the increased production rate with the increased planting density, when compared to traditional methods, and with the stocking densities boasted from what i've seen work, i think the cost of fish food to fertilizer would be more than comparable. really an explanation as to how their system works for them and not for anyone else ever has yet to be found... even you aussies can't cry about their sunlight exposer, i hear is sunny down under as well... im talking about their filtration methods, stocking densities, and grow out area... for a 6 year old aquaponics farm it's funny how much of their system isn't supposed to be working according to some people... the only time it's ever hiccuped is when they caught a lettuce blight from bad seeds... but since that has nothing to do with the system i can't see how that could possibly be relevant...
  15. in my area of the united states using it as a way to A. create more jobs and B. lower the price of seasonal vegetables (if an ap system were in a green house on a massive scale) would be great. our yearly average is 1 out of every ten people on the street has no job... so creating work to be done would be the largest benefit. also, living a short shipping distance to ohio's 3 largest cities, being able to talk to the professional chefs and getting a go idea of fresh water fish that is universally wanted and breeding these fish within the system would not only generate repeat customers, it would also help close the loop on the food industry. with this idea i imagine a system like the friendly aquaponics' 2nd system that has 8 tanks feeding water into 5 troughs.... it's set up in 2 groups of 4 tanks that just over flow one into the other. they are used as grow out tanks for their tilapia, which explains the overly complicated set up, but while it's regulated you end up with a group of fish ready to be eaten on a semi regular basis... to set this up for commercialism you just order fish in time out incraments, use them while they're living to power the system, and then when they are fully grow and about to die anyway, you sell them to the local spots. things fish like trout, lake perch, and walleye are high value items up here year round, so in using them you'd be all but guaranteed a buyer. to make money i would gear a system to what the middle and high end restaurants wanted. micro greens and specialty items that would be costly to order in or have a high turnover rate. inch for inch within a system the best money to be made are the micro greens. they are grown and harvested in weeks and take up 2sq inches per plant... a local green house does this using the standard growing methods with dirt and water, so why not aquaponics the darn thing (yes i used aquaponics as a verb) and raise specialty fish to go with their specialty produce? and then use the natural fertilizer of the effluent water on their crops? it's like winning while you're winning.